I was confusing you with Allen for a sec and selling equipment.
But ya, I won’t extract that warm. I can tell a huge difference in quality.
2 Likes
If you did, did you run -20 solvent, -20 columns, -20 biomass? Because imo if you extract at that temp, you have to have all three be cold or you’re essentially just cooling the column or biomass and extracting at -10 or 0.
Have a good day extracting
3 Likes
When clients only have a certain budget, you cannot argue with that fact.
I can easily match your product (@Dred_pirate), with you extracting at lower temperatures & costing more for your clients using higher energy loads and more expensive hardware.
I’ve pulled >10% terpene content, with minimal fats, using only -20 or -30. These are diamonds, badder/budder, isolate, etc products.
Stick to what you do best, making heady hash.
Don’t try to recommend systems to others unless you throughly experienced buildout failures yourself, and understand the engineering aspect behind devices, extraction, and purification.
Some people are on a budget, and saying you can only make live resin with your temperature expectations only expresses a conceited belief you may have.
It’s not fact, it’s not the ‘truth’, it’s only what you believe.
To anyone reading this. -20 to -30 can easily accomplish all of your needs, so long as your actual column temps during soak are around there, and you do not raise above -15 or so until your recovery process.
You will see minimal fat/lipid concentration.
You may needs the SLIGHTEST CRC for color removal ONLY. Test various ratios, and never use too much.
I personally, extract at -65, for my heady clients with no budget restrictions.
But have also set up NUMEROUS systems capable of only -20 or so.
Hubers are great. But their cascade systems are a nightmare go repair if you are not one of their certified technicians, through Hubers training programs.
Even then, they are such compact built systems, repairs are risky and can lead you to even more damage if not reassembled/fixed properly.
-20 to -30 will also produce products that can compete with the BEST in the industry.
You just need to have your process dialed in perfectly.
My clients have numerous high times trophies and other bullshit cannabis awards that can speak to that fact.
1 Like
In the engineering world you NEVER run components to their true MAX potential.
When we use a chiller for cannabis extractions to their MAX negative set point. We literally are pushing the Compressor systems past what they are designed to do for extended periods of time.
Especially Huber systems. They were designed for the process R&D industries and universities doing research for novel compound synthesis, biomed research, reaction thermal controls, etc…
Not for plant sized industrial processing uses.
Have you seen the Huber waveform shown when you reach the max negative capability at the given thermal load you are putting it against?
That is essentially putting that compressor system against a stress test, and it is only a matter of time until that Compressor is not oiled enough with fluids to keep pumping that hard.
I always design systems with load excess in mind, so that you see prolonged lifespans of all your systems.
Eg, Air compressors oversized, chillers oversized, heaters oversized, etc…
That does not even mean you will use more energy.
Most of the time you will use LESS energy as your appliances are running at higher efficiency while at say 60% load capacity, than a smaller unit running at 100% load capacity.
When at 100% load capacity not only are lifespans decreased, but energy consumption is far higher than running a system that is oversized using less load capacity, as the larger system is usually unning cooler and is able to maintain that load without ‘breaking a sweat’ per say.
2 Likes
These compressors will run forever at a 10:1 compression ratio of the oiling system is designed properly. That’s all there is to it. You can measure the temp at the interstate HX and calculate the compression ratio very easily. Most competent chiller designers use a low pressure cutout switch to limit the minimum pressure and control that CR. I’ve never seen a legit mfg allow a CR higher that 20 and usually they are capped around 15. Insufficient cooling of the upper stage is usually what causes the interstate HX to exceed normal operating temp, which raises the CR. This is something worth monitoring. The other, much more common failure mode is refrigerant leaks which reduce evap pressure and cause extremely high CRs. Once evap pressure is below atmospheric, you get water and uncondensables in the system which is the cause of 95%+ of compressor failures. Leaks happen regardless of operating parameters. Running the systems hard is generally not attributable to failure except in the first mode I posted (read: don’t cheap out on your backing chiller)
3 Likes
This is also fallacious. The evaporator pressure is always based on the saturation pressure at the temperature of the process fluid, and similarly the discharge pressure is based on the condenser fluid temp. Assuming both are fixed in a comparison between an oversized system and one which is not, the pressures are the same and therefore the work needed to compress the fluid is the same. Bing bam boom, same power required.
For large refrigeration systems (eg building chillers), they run most efficiently at full load and less so the more they are unloaded. Because small compressors don’t have any way to unload, this is irrelevant
4 Likes
Honestly you should call Calvin at Bizzy, they offer different chiller options than huber, one that hasn’t been mentioned.
And besides after you buy hoses, swagelok fittings and adapters the headache of getting what you need is taken care of, that way when your chiller arrives you only need glycol.
the ultra lows ship with fluid as part of the purchase from bzb.
2 Likes
This is also true. And Calvin is the only one I prefer to deal with at bzb, too.
1 Like
As of yet I have had nothing but a good experience with anyone there, but specifically Calvin, dude has been super helpful, he was the one that mentioned a cheaper chiller when I asked for a 915 quote.
2 Likes
I have been speaking with Kyle.
The other brand of chiller is ultra-low?
1 Like
Me thinks you have 0 idea about HVAC design and efficiency construction 
.
I learned from engineers whom worked on various NASA/JPL projects.
Projects that were Mission critical, if their compressors went out, we would have dead pilots/astronauts.
But keep believing what you want, and watch what will happen.
You are well aware compressors loose efficiency once their ambient environment raises above the condensers rated air cooled capability?
I don’t think you have any idea how thermodynamics work with compressible refrigerants.
Call Huber up, ask them directly if you can run their machines at full load long term.
Edumacate yourself.
You sound really super duper smart. NASA and shit.
Maybe recommend a cheaper chiller than a Huber and drop a link for ya boy with that big brain.
2 Likes
Here.
They don’t make a small unit yet, to my knowledge, only a big ass air cooled chiller.
Only down to -50/-60 as well.
These are single stage chillers not cascade chillers.
Less parts to worry about.
As a distributor for them, I can get you what you need, if you don’t understand the KW/Tonnage conversions, etc…
1 Like
How many KW at -40 is this rated to?
You want a NEMA 4 rating on that enclosure, if its placed outdoors. 3R could have leaks in a rain storm/dust storm.
Otherwise, looks good to me.
You need to know that if your ambient temperature raises above 90°f ambient, your chiller will decrease in KW capacity exponentially/logarithmically, not linear decreases.
Eg, drastically less KW capacity if your package is in 100°f ambient, rather than the rated ambient.
They can provide you graphs with the calculated KW at your temperature at your average ambient, if you request directly.
2 Likes