CBleach vs Summit Achromatizing Clay

#1

Maybe I’m asking an obvious question here, maybe not. Anyone have any opinions on this? Elliot told me to use his Achromatizing clay which supposedly won’t alter the PH in a way necessary for later PH rebalancing.

The packaging also claims it can be used in the boiling flask w/o causing much isomerization.

http://summit-research.tech/product/clay-bleach-mineral-3-5-gal/

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#2

As a Marine Electrician I learned a highly developed protocol in how we went about either describing high tech weapons electrical systems or repairing them. I learned the protocol serves well in cases like this.

Every single product, technique, and practice was always described in a specific format. The first thing described was “theory of operation” and it was mandatory that this theory not only be complete at times down to the junction of say a PNP transistor but that it also be written for high school graduates with perhaps six months of tech school.

Ask the manufacturer for a concise theory of operation for the product. If it is not completely clear and concise just what it is you should do and precisely why right down to the point of phase change inside a boiling flask then by definition you do not know why you should do this.

Often a manufacturer will adopt a quasi-anthropic sciencific theory of operation and there is honestly a good argument for anthropic science which states pretty much, “It is the way it is because it is the way it is.” This then factors differently, right? :call_me_hand:t3: In the Marine Corp we used the letters FM as an acronym to describe anthropic technical ciruits and this likely applies cross technology to our own endeavors.

What you are left with personally then is FM and faith to be frank that the product will be a net gain in process efficiency or a net loss when all other things are considered. After cleanup, cost, and other post process time and resource consuming processes are considered the final question becomes economic. That is the realm of accounting and the IRS who also operate on anthropic science…
:money_mouth_face::money_mouth_face::money_mouth_face:

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#3

Can you find out the comparative pH of that vs other bleaching clays? Im sure it’s on the packaging somewhere

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#4

Why is the label so nonspecific? I hope the back tells composition? That info they do bother to share is yawn with 0 technical specifications. Why?

It leads me to want to purchase products from the industrial world that are geared towards edible oil processing. I don’t doubt that products designed and marketed towards cannabis refinement may have identified advantages or engineering specifications than if they were geared toward another field, but until they’re ready to offer labels with specifics rather than just some random paragraph, I’ll be steering clear.

Anyway, couldn’t someone just mix a little acid activated bleaching clay with some non-acid activated in the right ratio to get a neutral pH? Maybe that’s what this is.

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#5

I’ll agree. Always be super ambiguous so you can’t be wrong and hide behind an NDA to avoid giving out details :smirk:. None of this is rocket science and none of these powders are inventions of any of us, but are common industrial minerals we repackage.

IMO its irresponsible to be super vague about what you sell, just so others don’t copy you. Its just dishonest. I wouldn’t buy food from the supermarket without some idea of what i’m buying, nor would I make medicine with a magical powder that i don’t have a clue what it is. Always demand the MSDS from your supplier!

For us the business model is simple. We buy in bulk container load quantities and repack and relabel. Carbon specifically is a bitch (messy) to repack and it takes man hours to do so. We include free shipping in most of our products and we feel that service is enough to warrant a decent markup. You can’t just buy a product that costs $10 a pound and sell it for $100 simply by slapping a label on it.

Now don’t get me wrong, don’t get confused with silly comments posted online trolling people about what they sell. There are different grades of similar products. For example, clay for cleaning fryer oil is not the same as the products Columbo sells. Way different grades and way different prices. For us, we sell USP and Food Grade DE (like Celite) which many argue is the same as what is sold on Amazon for a few dollars. Unfortunately it isn’t and its not that simple. USP grade DE is 15 times more expensive than the Food Grade version. Hope you get the point. For the stuff we sell, we can’t buy a 50# bag of DE and usually not even a whole pallet. So it’s a giant investment to buy 20 tons of powders to sell it 5 pounds at a time.

My opinion is just walk away from companies that are not transparent about what they sell. We are not ignorant to be wooed by fancy technical jargon. Right?

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#6

It hard to read the label that well since it seems to be a lot of PR. But if the material is either acidic or basic it has the ability to isomerize your material and also make other materials. Typically for distillation work you want to use a neutral product like teflon tape or pieces of teflon to help with your distillation. I am not super familiar with their product, but I would use something else to help/speed up your distillation

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#7

@SamboCreeck.com very well put, I like your style. If there’s anything I learned, it was to be wary of vague ambiguous people.

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#8

Well, this got off topic really fast. Soooooo back tonit I guess. I’ve used the achro clay on my second pass. 5% on a 4L run. I’m way past the Terp/Azulene fraction(because I also use AC 5%in my boiling flask). But the disty way pat any green Terp fraction still has a green hue to it. Which I never had an issue with when hauling just AC. I figured I’d try some achro clay and I’m not sure I’m liking the results if another pass is a must to clear up green hue. The AC in the boiling flask works wonders. I started testing parameters at 2.5%AC color lightened from dark amber to orange’ish color. Then I did a 7% AC with a another shade in lightening effect and was happy with the color. The 7% run concluded a 8.7% yield loss(not bad for how well the de-colorization worked. I then decided to have fun and do a 17.5%AC run and the disty looked amazing. With a loss yield of 15.6%. Has anybody used Summits achro clay with good results and please explain parameters? The pictures below are all of just the AC runs.

Here’s a picture of the 5%AC/ 5%Achro from Summit. Not happy with the color. Looks like a straight Terp fraction.

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#9

Did you “activate” the clay before putting it in your boiling flask? I’ve tried it at 5%, 7%, and 10% and haven’t seen any notable change in color.

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#10

I had similar results with the original c-bleach re running heads and tails, It all came out greenish like above ^

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#11

I’ve been using achromatizing clay for a while. It’s the same thing as the t5 that carbon chemistry sells. Its bentonite clay with a neutral PH. Putting this in the flask will cause high delta 8 distillate. Only way you can use it without isomerization is as a scrub.

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#12

And if my goal is isomerization of as much as possible to delta8, just dump a shit ton in the flask?

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#13

Btw this stuff works WAY better if you scrub with it first then use it in the flask. I feel like scrubbing with it removes alot of the crap so itll work better in the flask ( if you dont scrub with it then when you put it in the flask itll attach to everything you could have scrubbed out and its less effective IMO)

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#14

I never use above 5 % the more you use the more it traps thc in the clay in the end, it can also give you stir bar problems

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#15

if you get green youre getting azulene and not fully burping it, if theres any fats and lipids you get azulene. first pass hot condeser tech at 150 c or above will prevent a second pass azulene fraction from what I have seen.

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#16

I wouldn’t mind actually producing Delta8 as a separate product. 2nd pass and a shit ton of clay should do it?

Also, thanks for the tip. I have both the achromatizing and T5. Now I know it’s the same shit. I’ve started doing filtration with it, as talked about in the “clear etho shatter” thread.

I’ve been debating if I should take the extra processing time to do scrubs instead of just filtration.

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#17

Ive used T5 as filtration media and it does not work that well IMO, you can actually do all your scrubs prior to first pass if you know how to do it. I heat my crude up to 120 c and decarb first, then I add in 5% carbon and bentonite clay and scrub for 30 minutes, after that I add in my 1:10 of ethanol for winterization once it has cooled to 70 and do a room temp filtration to remove some waxes and the clays / carbon. Anytime you put something in the flask itll cauze Isomerization, some people think you need an acid or alkaline, which is untrue. C bleach IMO causes alot of delta 10 or some mystery peak we havent identified yet which is why i use the t5. it makes more delta 8 then c bleach does. Ive done the tests. They were on my old IG but it got deleted, luckily i have it backed up and still have that info. Ill try and find it to post it.

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#18

I’ve used 10% in boiling flask second pass and my distillate was water clear almost a light rose color right away then faded to a very light yellow over time. It looks completely clear in the cart. Test results showed roughly 40% delta 9 …40% delta 8

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#19

T5 or CBleach?

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#20

summits clay

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