This is absolutely irrelevant but the their LOQs for D9 are above the legal limit.
the only thing to fear in that is the solvent.
xylene is a bitch ill wait the right solvent next time.
why test it ennui I have no intention of ever giving something to the public.
I am only interested in replacing amitriptyline as a sleep medication for ptsd 
though when I finally get the parameters down ill send it to someone who has offered
to test it and release the spectra (not a coa)
hold on now I think about it ill give it to the dr when I am ready I think he
was pluging himself as an analysis man.
makes it more interesting then doesnt it.
at the end you can go wow.
or man he built us all up for that COA what a fucker.
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Results were confirmed by two independent measurements by two analysts. HPLC and GC agreed within 2% for d8 and 0.5% for d9. 96% d8 and 3% d9.
Believe what you want. It matters not to me.
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What makes you believe ptsa can t do this ?
Adams used it in 1940 and he was very thorough in his research
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I laugh when folks say they figured out the conversion chemistry for CBD. Like you said, the earliest paper is from 1940… before the US was involved in WWII. That isn’t to say the earliest work is the best route… but it’s been around for nearly 100 years.
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someone has done the ipa table salt and sulfuric acid isomerization and given me some hplc
analysis.
it looks like we have a reasonable amount of delta 9 with about the same amount of delta 8.
there is a third peak which I think might be 6a, 10a, THC.
it looks like im cooking it too long so ill try for an hour or an hour and a half.
thanks to wizardofoz for the analysis.
this is plenty good enough for a punk to get high on
there seems to be very little biproducts so I shall continue with this procedure.
it looks like increasing time or temp is not a good idea and maybe a little less acid
might be in order.
3 drops of sulfuric and an hour and a half sounds like a good next test.
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I have run another trial.
still under lockdown so supplies are still not what I would wish and substitutions have had to be
made.
6g CBD
200ml of IPA
2g NaCl
6 well formed drops of sulfuric acid
extraction solvent butane with {help me} ethanethiol.
ok I hate sulfur.
if I could I would not use H2SO4.
I fucking hate sulfur.
don’t like the dehydrogenation with sulfur.
don’t like the chlorinations with sulfur (SCl2)
don’t like drugs with sulfur (sumatriptan)
I should have known better.
so same reaction setup as before though this time we ran 1 hour instead of 2.
product came out lighter than it ever has (I would say that the third peak and a lot of the colour and
unknowns in isomerization comes from ph and the amount of protons in the solution)
it has stayed a liquid as expected but the liquid is thinner than I am normally used to.
I would say from the consistency of used engine oil from the past experiments to the consistency of
un whipped egg whites.
high is the bomb less irritation than ever when smoking so ill put that down to side reactions and
colour.
now the thiol.
why do dumb people have to leave there gas on and then blow there block up.
why am I so dumb as to not know this.
desperate lockdown no solvents… please deliver my solvents mr postman.
tastes like a dead skunk.
smells like a dead skunk pumping lpg into a hiace.
cool man I got me some skunk.
other than that strength very very strong we have a much better product than the two hour reaction.
I did not wash this I just put bicarb into the reaction mix after crashing in water to neutralize then
I extracted and then evaporated solvent.
butane does not dissolve much water so the sodium ion was left out of the mixture and oil came out
near clear.
I guess I dont really have to worry about smoking thiols.
after all social distancing if you can smell it you are way to close there.
heptane is preferred though.
I think I shall give this a go.
https://www.amazon.com/Puretane-N-Butane-Food-grade-Refined-Filtered/dp/B01095MI6O
I liked how the butane worked though it is rather wasteful.
I ended up with 5.5ml of oil after extraction.
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Very inspiring that you let us take part in your experiments. That makes me want to experiment again
I postponed my citric acid attempts until later (but I still see potential there, maybe for D8 …)
I also find your reference to the polarimeter very good. Afterwards, while googling, I came across an antique on Ebay, and I’m really looking forward to seeing how much that could bring in our hobby. (Unfortunately I still have to wait for the postman, but for the price I couldn’t even have built one myself ^^). Maybe it will be nice to be able to roughly compare results
I’ve now done a few small experiments with HCL. The specification of 0.005 mol, which is often found on the Internet, seems to me to be far too little. I had even taken more (about 0.01 mol, i.e. about 0.04% concentration) and could hardly observe any reaction even after 5 hours of reflux.
Another reaction with about 1.4 /1.5 mol (5% concentration), on the other hand, is obviously much too strong, and the Koh test no longer seems to work properly.
So next I try 0.1 mole (0.4% concentration).
My idea for the next experiment is to make about 400ml solution with about 5g of CBD, and then take 100ml after every 30 minutes, wash and at the end compare the oils (i.e. first decrease after 30 minutes, second after 60, third after 90 fourth after 120, everything still without argon), and then the effectiveness and later compare the samples with the polarimeter.
And I have two questions for you and it would be very nice if you could say something about it.
You work indirectly with HCL, so to speak. Do you happen to know how much HCL your sulfuric acid reaction generates? Because the picture you posted from the test looks very interesting, an HCL concentration that is comparable to yours seems to me to be a sensible starting point.
And at how much temperature do you get your reflux? Up until now I had always taken the boiling point of the IPA, i.e. about 82.5 ° C + - 2 ° C, which works quite well. But I wonder if you can’t stay well below the boiling point in order to get more D9.
Sorry if something in the text comes off wrong / sounds strange. I rely on Google Translate for support
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Hey Squig,
Thanks for sharing your results. Look forward to seeing more. May follow in your footsteps and try an HCl conversion. Will share if I do.
Gotta start doing micro scale conversions like your doing to test things.
When I first started reading posts about conversions specifically to d9. HCl (specifically anhydrous) seemed like the most promising based on the few posts I read.
Then I read a post Kingofthekush talking about high d8 from HCl and that dissuaded me.
Since then I have read reports of seemingly conflicting results from the same catalysts. 2:1 d9:d8 from ptos and high d8 nd d9 from ptos. 93% d9 fron Zinc and high d8 low d9 from Zinc. And other examples I can’t think of atm.
All these acids close the ring.
I am wondering if the position of the double bond (d8 v d9) has more to do with the time and conditions of conversion than it does with the catalyst used.
Every once in a while I regret dropping out of school, if only for a few seconds.
If anyone wants to enlighten me, or share some key words I should search to learn what influences bond position, any knowledge on the subject is greatly appreciated.
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You are wondering right.
When you start from CBD, the pathway seems to be CBD 
CBsomething (an intermediate) d9 d8/d10 (plus a series of byproducts, including colored quinones and sometimes 1 or 2 terps smelling like burn rubber).
Each step is not at 100% as the next step starts. The pathway is the same with all catalyst discussed in this forum like acids, salts, clays, carbon… Some catalyst are more specific than other and tend to produce more or less d10 at the last step, but none stops at d9.
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one eyedrop is about 0.05ml
H2SO4 has a density of 1.83
so for every 100ml of solvent I use 0.15ml too 0.2ml of sulfuric acid or
0.2745g too 0.366g
sulfuric acid has a molecular weight of 98
sooooo
0.2745 / 98 = 0.0028 mole per 100ml
too
0.366 / 98 = 0.0037 mole per 100ml.
now molar solutions are measured to the litre so …
0.028 too 0.037 M solution of sulfuric acid.
sulfuric acid is diprotic so you multiply the number by two to get
0.056M too 0.074M of HCl solution
I am leaning towards the 0.056M solution at the moment but think that 1 hour is not enough
so will go for 1 1/2 hours next time.
I think that to much cbd in the mixture is far worse for the high than delta 8 so I think its better
for me to slightly over cook than under cook it.
reflux is always at the boiling point of the solvent I think though I only measure the oil bath
so I don’t over heat the solution.
pure ethanol has a lower boiling point and then methanol even lower.
I use the ipa as it is the safest pure alcohol you can get over the counter.
I think my final write up will be a little like this.
500ml erlenmyer flask
glass funnel
2 candy thermometers
cooking pot
oil
IPA
CBD
Sulfuric acid
Table Salt
Puretane
follow the other instruction to get to temp with acid then add CBD
put glass funnel in neck of flask and one of the candy thermometers into the
glass funnel to make a cold finger (doesn’t need that much cooling)
heat so the candy thermometer in the oil in the pot below the flask says one thing
and the candy thermometer in the funnel says another.
(the difference is so the funnel is cooler than the solution so we don’t over heat and
loose our solvent of course a condenser would fix this but im wanting it to be otc)
extract by dumping in water neutralize by adding a pinch of bicarb then put in freezer till 1C
add puretane and then separate in sandwich bag.
put puretane THC mix in a open container in a warm water bath to leave THC.
no lab glass no hard to get chems.
I will write it up when I get everything down perfect though and then post it up with pictures
so that everyone knows how its done.
with a little luck that should increase CBD sales by a long shot and therefore increase the
price of CBD and maybe stop everyone trying to make delta 8 for the open market as there
will be money in the isolate again.
may not happen that way but I think from past experience when people learn they can get
high of over the counter products the price of those products go up.
im nearly there now but we still have a big problem.
terps and other symbotic cannabinoids and the difference between pure THC and bud.
ive got 6 terps so far
alpha and beta pinene
limonene
myrcene
linalool
and beta caryophyllene
when mixed in the right ratios with the converted product it makes a big big difference
to the high compared to the converted product on its own but it is still a long way
from what I would call good bud.
also tolerance is so quickly developed by pure THC.
there is something missing.
I am sure there is something to be found in this that will affect tolerance to other
receptors as well if we understand why the symbiotic effect is happening.
I think it has to do with agonism and antagonism of the CB receptors.
we can see this effect with buprenorphine and naltrexone.
they call the stuff chicken in ozzie prisons for chicken soup (bupe)
personaly I hate the stuff its like being on a roller coaster.
nod tweek nod tweek nod … for fucking hours.
but there have been a few very smart smackies that have found that if they
dose there heroin with a small amount naltrexone now and then there tolerance lowers by a big
margin.
I think we have some antagonists of the CB receptor (like CBD)
it may be that all we need to do is add the right amount of cbd to the thc to fix this tolerance
effect and make the high more like bud.
But too much and well the high is even worse than pure THC.
the question of why does one strain of cannabis build a tolerance and when I change
strains my tolerance drops I think is probably the most important question to answer
in the cannabis world.
imagine if meth heroin and crack were not addictive anymore how the world would
look at drugs then.
I am also finding that smoking isomerized THC is more like smoking indolic synthetic cannabinoids
than bud when it comes to how my body feels after using it for a week or so.
this effect is not seen when product is ingested for my self.
it leaves me feeling detached like I have been out on the ket for the weekend but with a slight
clean feel like the second day after lsd.
it was not long after this feeling happened with indolic cannabinoids that I needed the police
to drive me 3 blocks to my house as I could not find my own way.
(the fuckers after looking up my record just laughed at me the whole way saying
I was better sticking to illegal highs than legal ones.)
I am hoping that this is not going to be the case as THC is not a full agonist of the receptor.
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Hey, thanks for your answer
Well, now I’m thinking about whether I should only take half of the intended concentration. And then do the 30 minute test with it.
At the moment I am still a bit busy getting used to the polarimeter.
Was first (as a joke thing), a little shocked what I got there (ebay ^^) but the shock was unfounded, it is a penumbral polarimeter for the determination in urine. But I quickly noticed that I had just read something out beforehand and only had to convert with the formula from German Wikipedia, and you already have the correct specification
(Antique instruments can be misused if you don’t know how they work exactly ^^).
Now I’m well on the way to using the polarimeter correctly. A test with pure CBD dissolved in a precisely dosed solution also brought exactly what should be (I came to exactly 1% with a solution that contained 1% CBD, and also to exactly 130.5 angle of rotation if I reversed it with pure ones CBD) so mathematically, you have to calculate the specific angle of rotation.
(It also struck me that when building the polarimeter, make sure that the tube is exactly 10 cm long, that makes it easier to calculate because it is designed for 1 dm [that is 10 cm]) …
Makes it easier if you got it right, you save a little converting ^^
Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I’ll start the real test, I was in the amusement park with the kids today ^^
What I find really interesting, however, is that the polarimeter can also be used to prove the concentration of certain products. Unfortunately, the purchased one only included instructions for students (German Art of special Higscool), but I almost have the feeling that this simple instruction for students contains almost more than you can find on the Internet using polarimeters ^^ (sometimes weird things like that ^^)
Edit:
I’m really thinking about whether I should join a chemistry course. So exactly in one that is about polarimeters. If they still exist …
Such things don’t cost much in Germany, I would only pay a symbolic amount. BUT it would take time …
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well im not a wizzard but if you have a method thats close to 100% im willing to pay you for the knowledge,
max
maybe we can talk about it in a few months / weeks, and then you will get it for free;)
I am slowly feeling my way now, bought the polarimeter to save tests and / but will still do laboratory tests …
If everything is right, we could talk about something like that. But I guess I already posted that publicly anyway;)
Edit:
I think something like that shouldn’t cost money either, but simply be available to mankind …!
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ok that would be nice, but i dont want to consume your time for free… i want to get started real fast. and i can pay you by the hour for personal attention…-
this will not work 
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If you are interested in learning more about catalysts that specifically convert CBD to Delta 9 then I recommend looking into the organoaluminum catalysts. One in particular, triisobutylaluminium, is capable of selectively converting CBD to Delta 9 with a very miniscule amount of byproduct formation (typically less than 3%). Interestingly enough this catalyst produces virtually no delta 8 alongside the delta 9.
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If someone propose you a 100% conversion method, you should be very doubtful about this person. 80-90% would be a bit more legit, but still, you need to ask evidences of that.
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I agree with that. I’ve tried quite a few catalysts and I’ve only found one capable of hitting that sort of purity.
Anyone interested in true selective catalysis should check out that link.
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well done brother
I have just got the stuff to set mine up.
though im going the protractor and film method first then ill make the pi model.
you used ethanol for the solvent yes (I would say so by the 1% as I put further up 1 g to 100ml ethanol)
from what I have read 95% ethanol works fine and still gives the same cannabinoid readings.
that means cheap denatured ethanol might be usable (if the denaturent is only bitrex I would think).
I love watching people follow what I have posted it really gives me a feeling of purpose.
ill try with the 10cm tube great tip.
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