Think about that some more…
All those strains are HEMP.
…which almost certainly means they were processed by a hemp license and firefly purchased them.
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Does this mean that firefly added those bits of extracts to what they had in a blend
Or
They were converting hemp?
Why isn’t cbc found in hemp naturally allowed to be in there ig henpmis allowed to be added through Metrc?
Have you guys done any of that hemp Metrc and adding cbd to blends?
I’d wager the hemp products were purchased. Specifically for those blends.
The CBN because folks want it, and the CBC to prevent crystallization of the CBD. Both of these practices are prevalent on the hemp side.
Although I haven’t made it into their lab yet, I’m reasonably certain Firefly are not performing conversions deliberately or accidentally.
The owner is on here, but I’ll let them decide whether they want to join this conversation.
…and no, we have not bought any hemp derived products into METRC yet, and don’t have any plans to go there anytime soon
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I don’t think there is any shame in their game as adding cbd through Metrc is totally kosher
Sounds like olcc needs to redefine what synthetic is because you can find cbc in plants yes?
That’s my current take. The CBN the as most likely “synthetic” by OLCC standards, the CBC is less obvious, but synthetic is certainly an option
Natural CBC (1a) is scalemic [6], but analogues from Rhododendron species like daurichromenic acid (6b) have been isolated in high optical purity [15]. The daurichromenic acid (DCRA) synthase from R. dauricum has been cloned and shows high similarity to CBCA synthase from Cannabis sativa [16]. An enantioselective transgenic production of (+)-daurichromenic has been developed in Aspergillus oryzae by heterologous expression of this synthase coupled to the one of its precursor (grifolic acid, 11) from the fungus Stachybotrys bisbyi (Figure 4) [17].
Figure 4: Enzymatic synthesis of daurichromenic acid (6b) from grifolic acid (11).
Synthesis: CBC (1a) is the only phytocannabinoids from Cannabis that can be obtained relatively easily by synthesis. The classic preparation is based on a tandem Knoevenagel-electrocyclic reaction between citral (12) and olivetol (5-n-pentylresorcinol, 13).https://coloradochromatography.com/media/cannabichromene.pdf
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IMO there absolutely shouldn’t be.
carts were legal by OLCC standards when sold to dispensaries.
when rules changed, dispensaries were informed that they had 6 months to sell inventory
producer made multiple attempts to buy back carts before that six months expired.
A preliminary investigation by the OLCC indicates that a combined total of more than 5,000 units of the products were manufactured between August 2021 and February 2022; not all of the products were distributed. The licensee has been cooperating with the OLCC to track down the distributed product.
ok, rules changes dec 28 2021. “not to be sold after july 2022”.
On December 28, 2021, the OLCC adopted new marijuana rules in OAR Chapter 845, Divisions 25 and 26. The rules place limits on the use of artificially derived cannabinoids in consumer products and create labeling requirements for any products containing artificially derived cannabinoids.
On and after July 1, 2022, retailers may not sell any product containing an artificially derived cannabinoid unless it has an OLCC-approved label that says “Artificially Derived Cannabinoid” in the product identity. Additionally, all products containing artificially derived cannabinoids must meet the requirements in OAR 845-025-1310. This means that products containing artificially derived Delta-8-THC can no longer be sold starting July 1, 2022.
https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Bulletins/Compliance-2022-02.pdf which was sent out just two weeks before “thou shall not sell!”
I get that OLCC needs these off the shelf…but as a producer, WTF do you do when dispensaries won’t return product that isn’t legal to sell?
edit: and this was really the first bulletin sent on on the subject: https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Bulletins/Compliance_2021_04.pdf
which was posted here when it came out: New OLCC rules for artificially derived cannabinoids and CRC
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Gotcha. This is a great explan. Thank you
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Is there any way to definitively differentiate between a batch of synthetic CBC and a batch of “alternatively-derived” CBC?
For example: Are the non-CBC cannabinoid minors in a batch of CBC produced via conversion different from the non-CBC cannabinoid minors in a batch of CBC produced via bona fide macromolecular synthesis?
For example: It seems to me that a non-trivial volume of CBC prodcued via a bona fide macromolecular synthesis would be far far more expensive than an equivalent volume of CBC produced via macromolecular conversion. If true, the price alone might help to differentiate between a bona fide “synthetic” CBC from an equal-sized batch of “alternatively-derived” CBC.
Other ideas here?
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Oh the irony coming from a former blue diamond salesman…
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It’s still early, but people are figuring it out. CBC isn’t directly mentioned, but seems relevant enough:
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We buy our cbd and cbn distillate out of one of the big guys in Oregon. Can’t recall the name atm, but does this mean the cbn distillate is considered a synthetic noid? Or can i expect it to be cannabis derived now that it is past july 22? We are in CO and make cbd infused carts. I use the cbn for our new gummy line. One of our go to grows usually have some decent amt of cbn, cbc, cbg and thcv. Didnt realize folks synthesize these noids in labs too. The more you know…
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It seems in fact easier to obtain CBC in significant concentration (90%) via “total” (1 step) synthesis, rather than via conversion.
It can be obtained from oxidation of CBG, bit it is also further easily oxidised to CBTC, and further to iso thc and CBL… so not that simple to obtain via conversion.
Synthetic CBC often still contains traces of citral et olivetol precurdors. And CBTC as main impurity (several %,).
There is something to do with the enantiomers as well. It seems that the plant only produces one.
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Could you explain “total” (1 step) synthesis in a sentence or three?
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olivetol + citral
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In Oregon, absolutely.
How do you imagine it is being made?!?
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Methinks you need to pay more attention to sourcing your ingredients….(synthesis route matters. As does competence in post synthesis clean up).
Decent amount?!?
I’d wager less than 2%? Probably less than 1%. Except for CBG, but that requires the right genetics.
You’re purchasing from a “hemp” lab , how do you imagine one gets from plants producing 10-15% CBD to 90+% CBN without chemical modification?
Define synthetic.
Maybe check out Search results for 'CBN SOP' - Future4200
Eg: CBC to CBN and Synthesis of CBN seems relevant.
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This is all new to me honestly. My coworker sources the material and i just make everything and we both just took on these positions after both our superiors abruptly left. Before i read this thread i just assumed a dialed in short path and a fraction finder sadly. I assume the cbn was synthesized from cbd/cbg at least. Will def be asking questions about their process for sure and will def be reading up on those threads and other sources. Thanks
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New designation: Dinosaur Derived Cannabinoids.
Yo Bro, you tried that DDC HHC?
Oh man! that’s awesome. I’ve been making things from dinosaurs (or the plants that they ate…or died around the time they did…) for so long. Sometimes I wonder what we will do when there are no more dinosaur remains for us to make new and improved things out of. Probably we will like recycle or start digging up landfills or something. Who knows!
There are some interesting DDC out there - people have been making them from fossil fuels (aka dinosaurs) for about 20 years now.
My real question remains - is it cheaper to grow cannabinoids or make them in a lab? Is it cheaper to grow them in plants other than hemp or THC rich hemp?
Costs a lot to GMO something into corn for instance - but with our mono-culture and knowledge of how corn grows, and all the harvest and planting tools for that crop (Way better than some of the hemp planting and harvesting tools that are available…)
Anyway. Thank you for coining a new term DDC - could be coming to a state near you (they certainly have before…) Phytocannabinoids may become a thing of the past (but not as old as dinosaurs!) <3
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