I may read this wrong but I think the hard crystalline structure is why it doesn’t melt without heat and agitation
Bust the crystals into a powder for faster dissolve then lock it in pressure vessel and add heat about 90f and wait couple hrs it’ll melt eventually. And if it’s just crystals no terps u can go up on the heat a lil more to melt the structures. Also having enough solvent helps to
I think that there isn’t an issue with THCa dissolving in hydrocarbons. The solubility of many of the neutral cannabinoids is reported to be high in hydrocarbons but actually getting them to mix usually requires heat and agitation, like THCa. D8THC distillate converted from isolate is not going to mix with -20 butane either. Even room temperature heptane will be difficult to mix quickly without heat and agitation. CBD is the same story in my experience.
Large amounts of solvent are used for extraction and if the material is prepared properly the THCa isn’t trapped so much as dispersed. I’m not sure if the fats and terps are playing a role, I’ll check out the dock you posted
addendum 1 :Effect of intramolecular hydrogen bonding on the relative acidities of substituted salicylic acids in benzene solution.pdf (41.8 KB)
two solution molecular forms of THCA -H form depending on Aqueous or Aprotic, non ionic
environment. The equilibrium exhibits a tipping point depending on pH.
Dump this into the soup…“more real than sauce”?
Addendum 2:
“more real than sauce” alternative to #1
Addendum 3:
If this is the trichome form…we need to find a source for the H+.
If you look back to the original list…we see a notable Lactic Acid peak.
Plants also pump hydrogen ions into the vacuoles. The molecular biology
data is out there for trichomes. Lots of data, we just have to search for
the ion pumps. The xray data from the THCA synthase indicates the acid
is ionized and released as ionic form.
Again what is it that Butane extracts? What is the first step…?
addendum 4:
Notice to all butane extractors: read this, let it sink in
and try to think about what you are actually doing.
Then post. (hint, the anion exchange resin is a tertiary amine)…look at the extraction solvent.
Example 1. Preparation of THCA (Both 2-COOH and 4-COOH)
As depicted in Scheme 1, dry plant material Cannabis sativa (10 g) was extracted with cyclohexane
(150 ml) for one hour under N2 to prevent oxidation and filtrated. The solid was washed twice with 50 ml cyclohexane, and all solvents together were added to anion exchange resin Amberlyst® A21 (free
base 3) and stirred for an hour. The degree of acid uptake was monitored by TLC. The resin was
filtrated and washed twice with ethanol to remove cyclohexane traces (after distillation cyclohexane
may be re-used). The resin was then added to a solution of NaOH (1.2 g, 30 mmol) in 150 ml 95%
ethanol and the mixture was stirred for two hours. The resin was filtrated and washed twice with 50
ml ethanol (resin may be re-used). By HPLC, the solution contained Na-salts of THCA (2-COOH) and
THCA (4-COOH) in amounts of 91% and 5%, respectively. All the solutions were added to ion
exchange resin Dowex® 50WX8 (hydrogen form) and stirred for 30 min. The resin was filtrated and
washed twice with 50 ml ethanol."
(ref patent:(10/31/21, 9:18 PM US Patent Application
US Patent Application for PROCESS FOR PURIFICATION OF TETRAHYDROCANNABINOLIC- AND CANNABIDIOLIC ACID FROM PLANT MATERIAL EXTRACT Patent Application (Application #20210292295 issued September 23, 2021) - Justia Patents Search 7/11)
" less real than sauce"!!!
addendum 6: looking for the H+ pump proteomics/trichomes:
Molecules 2019, 24, 659; doi:10.3390/molecules24040659
What does that mean?
I completely agree with this. Plus when it’s "hard to dissolve THCa in alkanes usually people are going for full saturation. Different between dissolving 100 g thca in 100 pentane vs dissolving 1000 grams extract in 120 pounds of cold butane.
Sorry to be vague…just a pun from the WNC THCP? How real could this be?
discussion of THCP
regards,
Ah! Thank you for enlightening me. Looks like a good thread to dig into as well…
Edit: My bad, I misread what you had said. ~Deleted.
Edit: Post fixed
Alex go back to original post and read addendum 4,
you will be a bit surprised to say the least…
When thca is in the resin head it is a very, very small particle and much easier to extract. When it is in a more dense form, it is harder to “extract”, or “dissolve”. Anyone that has tried to melt shatter in their material column has witnessed this, with the bottom of the column full of thca powder. Dissolving thca in butane isn’t that hard, actually. Just takes a lot of time and/or heat (pressure vessel). Thca as a solid takes a lot of energy to break down, just like decarbing just thca. It takes longer/hotter than we’re normally used to. So does dissolving it down in butane. Solid thca in larger structures, takes more “energy” to break down once it becomes a solid. The larger and more dense (fewer inclusions) it is, the more energy is needed.
Right, that’s why I like pentane. Allows me to use higher temps to better dissolve my “A”.
The solvent the THCa crystals were grown in also contributes to butane’s inability to dissolve them. Stones grown in acetone took longer to dissolve in heptane than the stones grown in heptane.
@Franklin
This point to different forms of thca which is what I think @moronnabis is trying to get across. Check out some of the links I posted the the new thca-h+ thread
The main takeaway from addendum 4 I see is that cyclohexane was a suitable extraction solvent prior to their chemical modifications and purification steps. Cyclohexane, like butane, extracted without concern. I enjoy trying to figure out what you’re talking about but if you could be more specific that would be helpful.
I think the amberlyst probably wouldn’t work if the THCa was deprotonated in natural form, which if I recall correctly was the theory we discussed which brought about the question “why does butane work”
That discussion was about how THCa becomes protonated in the trichome after being synthesized in the deprotonated form.
If the base form of THCa is dominant I’m not sure the cyclohexane would work well and I’m not sure the amberlyst would be able to measurably bind to it. If I’m reading it right the amberlyst is up taking the acid… the acid being THCa. Then the amberlyst is washed with strong base to remove the THCa and deprotonate it. Am I reading that wrong?
So initially 91% THCA-A and 5% THCA-B and these are de-protonated in the plant?
The post was deleted due to an incorrect
interpretation of the active matrix group on the amberlyst
resin…see alex siegal and Magister Chem below.
My understanding is the amberlyst only becomes Positively charged after absorbing the acid. If the THCa is in basic form that can’t happen. I’m not sure what is confusing here
The protonation source could be the other fatty acids in the trichome, no? Have you looked at all of the pka of the fatty acids present in the trichome
