Bubble hash with Liquid Subzero water.

[almax710]

Anyone tried running bubble with water in Subzero conditions as a liquid, preferably no ice or salts. Either maintaining with pressure, agitation, etc. Please don’t suggest liquid nitrogen hash, it will make everything brittle and leave contaminant.

[cyclopath]

sounds like a tall order.

how far below it’s freezing point are you hoping to have liquid water?

[almax710]

Whatever point but obviously no lower than -55F
(That’s whenever water freezes in any condition no matter what.)

[cyclopath]

water freezes at zero C. or 32F

so NOT “liquid sub-zero water” without ice?!?

that should be considerably less problematic.

perhaps we should back up a step or two.
why no ice?!?

Edit: whoops

no lower than -55F

not clear how you get water below 0C or 32F without ice.
Can you elaborate?

[square_root_pharms]

You could use a salt brine or even a PG/water mix. You want to wash your hash well after. Imagine making a diy glycol chiller that could recirculate -30 glycol mix in a bubble machine. Otherwise you’re not getting pure H2O under 0c without it freezing to a solid

[cyclopath]

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/very-sub-zero-water

Cold water has hit a new low. Droplets can avoid freezing — at least for a short while — at temperatures as low as –46° Celsius (–50.8° Fahrenheit), a new study shows.

“It’s a world record, and it’s hard to imagine it will ever fall,” H. Eugene Stanley told Science News . This physicist at Boston University, in Massachusetts, did not take part in the new study.

Water’s normal freezing point is 0° C (32° F). But under some conditions, even colder water can remain liquid. It’s something scientists have long known. Such “supercooled” water stays liquid as long as it doesn’t touch anything, such as a dust particle or an ice cube tray. Once it does, it turns to ice.

except that everything will go solid once you achieve trichomes (dust)

[RedDog]

Pressure or salt appear to be the accessible options.

Can water stay liquid below zero degrees Celsius?

[cyclopath]

salt will certainly work.

I can’t find a phase diagram that actually shows what pressures you’d need

https://www.google.com/search?q=water+phase+diagram&tbm=isch

maybe someone else is more patient?

[square_root_pharms]

Essentially the only feasible way is to introduce an additive to the water ie. Salt or glycol

[square_root_pharms]

I’d really like to see what a 60% pg and water solution chilled to -55f would do in say a diy bubble /washing machine lol

[RedDog]

So is the real question, what benefits are there from doing a bubble extraction at subzero temps?

In my opinion, there’s no reason to go colder than 39-40 F (4 C)

[square_root_pharms]

I’m no bubble expert but I imagine the train of thought might be better yields or more brittle trichomes?

[RedDog]

Right, seems though at a certain point of cold it’ll be too brittle and all the plant mater would just get micronized, right?

@Viktor Schauberger said

As a liquid, the behaviour of water differs from all other fluids. The latter become consistently and steadily denser with cooling, yet water reaches its densest state at a temperature of +4° Celsius (+39.2° Fahrenheit), below [and above] which it grows less dense. In contrast, water’s behaviour is anomalous, because it reaches its greatest density at a temperature of +4°C (+39.2°F). This is the so-called “anomaly point”, or the point of water’s anomalous expansion (which is decisive in this regard), and has a major influence on its QUALITY. Below this temperature it once more expands. This highest state of density is synonymous with its highest energy content, a factor to be taken carefully into account…

[ScoobyDoobie]

Calcium chloride is known to be the most effective additive for freezing point depression. A solution of 31% CaCl2 in water has a freezing point of -50C. This would be a pretty good bet, although at those temperatures your material better be fresh frozen or else your going to produce at a lot of very small particles of plant material. Fresh frozen may not even save you from this, its worth a shot for sure.

[ScoobyDoobie]

One point i hadnt considered though is how this will affect buoyancy and whether or not the trichomes would rather float in this solution, or still drop…

[almax710]

This^^^^^. Was about to link what RedDog said, but like you said not enough info on pressures. This is the part where R&D, Trial and error would need to be carried out, as I can hardly find anything about super cooled water itself, even asked a chemistry professor at my local community college, and that old dinosaur didn’t believe water could be kept liquid at those temps until I referenced a 2011 study. Perhaps something along the lines similar to a cold loop, but with room for the plant to flow in a vortex yet soft enough to not break plant matter and bleed green.

[ScoobyDoobie]

Now that i think about it, even if this did make the trichomes float, CaCl2 would still be a workable route. You would just need to do the bubblehash process upside down.

[Krative]

Now how do you get all the cacl2 out of your extraction?

[ScoobyDoobie]

Fresh water.

[Krative]

Alright… I’m not familiar enough with how bubble hash works I guess