I can’t stop thinking about people inhaling Vitamin E acetate, then that acetate turning into acetic acids, then the people’s lungs get filled with acid and then the pain and suffering begins. If this is the mechanism of action that’s hurting/killing these people…wow.
It legitimately gives me goosebumps.
OK, pick any one of the 100s of identified cannabinoids that are toxic then. Make the same comparison
I would think that it has more to do with the hydroxyquinone in vitamin E. This can isomerize to benzoquinone which is toxic to aquatic life. When you purchase this you have to sign a form promising to only use it for R&D and not in consumable products. Now imagine vaping something that is toxic to aquatic life and tell me what you think it’s going to do to your lungs.
Take your pick, it still wouldn’t matter if they were biosynthesized by a plant or synthesized in a lab, at least in terms of their safety profile.
Here is a list of natural and organic poisons. See the point? Appealing to nature as it being safe is a distraction from the point.
I think you are on to something.
The amount of acetic acid you could get from hydrolyzing the acetate is very small and bodies can handle small pH swings.
I’m not convinced the vitamin E thing is the root cause but something is sure causing severe lung damage.
The idea that oily substances like MCT are the root cause doesn’t sound credible either.
Folks in the oil industry often are forced to breath in all kinds of oily shit and it isn’t acutely toxic.
Nobody really knows but I wouldn’t be surprised if the culprit is a result of something cracking during the vaping process.
It could be a lot of stuff but here is one wild ass guest.
What is really toxic, especially to the lungs, at very small doses?
Cyanide…
What precursor chemicasl will crack to CN?
Nitriles…
Folks use acetonitrile in reverse phase LC but I can’t see how an appreciable amount could end up in vape juice.
…please appreciate this post as wild ass speculation to aid the dialogue but, who knows, it might actually be something simple like this.
Has anybody ever cooked at the waffle House? I did the night shift for about 6 months between the time I quit one job and was waiting for charges to get expunged so I could apply for the next one.
I would regularly wipe this in a thin film onto a 2x4ft stainless steel evaporator set to 400F and inhale the vaporized products. I could definitely feel that shit in my lungs. I also developed a weird lump on my forehead that went away after quitting and putting some CBD on it.
Here’s the ingredients but doesn’t include everything: (what is natural and artificial butter flavor?)
Partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (soybean oil, coconut oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil and palm oil), soy lecithin, natural and artificial butter flavors, beta carotene (color), dimethylpolysiloxane an antifoaming agent added
No way that’s safe right?
That’s literally how “popcorn lung” became a thing.
Here’s something sketchy that I learned recently: A natural flavor is a molecule that exists in nature, whether naturally derived OR synthetically produced, used to flavor something. An artificial flavor is a molecule that does NOT exist in nature, synthetically produced and used to flavor something.
There are over 100 flavors in natural butter. Apparently most butter flavor is diacetyl and “naturally” produced by streptococcus as a byproduct of milk culture. Yummy
A natural flavor is a molecule that exists in nature, whether naturally derived OR synthetically produced
-this is fuckery at its finest!
Also, haven’t I seen dimethylpolysiloxane on the vacuum grease label? I thought it was standard practice NOT to add that to consumables?
Apparently it’s commonly used in cooking oils. There are trace amounts left on most deep fried fast foods.
I really need to start making all my own food. Or else I really hope CBD does prevent cancer, we should up our doses
Dont you dare ruin butter for me! I love butter
You know it’s funny i just went to the waffle House yesterday for the first time ever. And i noticed how weird it is that they didn’t give me real butter
Oleo
The oil anal seepage liquid
Acetic acid is not something to really worry yourself over. It’s a weak acid to begin with and it’s even used as a carrier in a wide range of injectable medications. The amount of acetic acid you’d be exposed to from vitamin E acetate would not be causing this severe of a reaction. The effects of acetic acid vapor inhalation are widely researched in industrial workers. It’s definitely not good but what happens after inhalation of high levels of acetic acid is not consistent with what we’re seeing with VAPI. There’s definitely another factor outside of vitamin E acetate.
I’ve been wondering if Vitamin E’s correlation is that it disrupts lung function in such a way that some other chemical(s) like cobalt, cadmium, myclo, etc end up having a much more severe response. Or perhaps what I find even more likely is that vitamin E is related because it’s being used as a carrier for something dangerous like synthetic cannabinoids which are crystalline and would require an oil carrier. This would also explain why it’s been linked to every single case.
I say synthetic cannabinoids because there was a very extensive paper published that showed how certain synthetic cannabinoids caused nearly identical symptoms when inhaled. They apparently cost pretty much nothing to import from China so it would also provide the black market an incentive. I even was seeing a number of discussions about “noids” on Reddit 6 or so months ago. I think they even have a subreddit r/noids. I do recall a lot of reports of people having “weird” effects from black market cartridges. Just a thought. I’m curious if health officials have tested for these at all
Couldn’t have been in Wisconsin. Illegal to serve margarine as butter in a restaurant,
how weird is it you have to"ask" for the Real butter there! No shit they keep it at the grill!. Don’t use those fake packs
The stuff at the grill is straight margarine if I remember correctly, or either it’s a 60% veg oil cut butter .
Got me again then, my buddy use to work there that’s what he told me IDK