Best cutting agent for the carts

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 5:19am

I had a list of viscosity terpenes on Facebook from one of their reps but squalane is one.

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 5:25am

Can you link us to studies showing how you came to that conclusion? As far as I know there are no real answers as to whether or not pg, peg, MCT are detrimental when Vaped. Some will produce carcinogens when combusted at very high temps but even then the studies do not state what levels or if the levels are high enough to be an issue.

Also MCT is a medium chain triglyceride which does not produce harmful effects like long chain triglycerides it is a highly purified fractionated derivative of long chain lipids. Also MCT does not produce lipid pneumonia like I tend to see repeated on many boards

Myrrdin · November 2, 2018, 5:50am

All the science and articles about how safe inhaling MCT, VG and PG can be will not change the minds of those who have used alternatively sourced terpenes in contrast.

After sampling all methods of diluting extract for vaping you can tell that MCT/VG/PG irritate your lungs sooner or later, while Terp mixes often do not.

That being said, Terps have a downside, they can evaporate away easily and are much more likely to phase or separate while MCT and PG usually do not, but that can be fixed with sonic homogenization.

2¢

Dred_pirate · November 2, 2018, 7:04am

Here’s the best advice. If it’s not cannabis. Or imitating IE: non cannabis derived terps. You shouldn’t be vaporizing it with your cannabis. The only reason you are defending putting pg, vg, whateverpoisonyoupeddleG, mct. Is because you aren’t making them correctly. As far as getting undercut because you are buying your disty. A turnkey kit can cost you less than 12k. You may be able to turn competitive after that. Don’t put cooking oil in your vape carts. Unless you eat paint chips and lived by power lines as a kid.

Dred_pirate · November 2, 2018, 7:05am

Audra, you do you. I’m positive it’s better than marketing cooking oil in vape carts.

Apothecary36 · November 2, 2018, 9:03am

Omg this Wayne’s world clip tho

Apothecary36 · November 2, 2018, 9:11am

https://www.consumercrafts.com/store/details/catalog/art-painting-mediums-finishes/BR1685?dssagcrid=lid=92700037157934581&ds_s_kwgid=58700004421692081&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000002797437&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3bDPpq613gIVQbnACh0qWwOKEAQYAiABEgLQSPD_BwE

Maybe home depot is the plug. (Not being serious, I’m just here to stir the pot)

nate_concentrate · November 2, 2018, 1:39pm

What about the fact your vaping tons of terps? Even flavor and odorless cant you over overload ? And wouldnt it still have some type of effect being a terp

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 2:11pm

Please post the studies I’m not arguing Legitimately want to see them

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 2:14pm

What spurred all of the buzz online was a marketer selling terps who posted to a chemistry forum. He has already been rebuted online.

What is the chemical reaction through which propylene glycol/glycerin forms formaldehyde/acetaldehyde?

Propylene glycol is NOT the same as glycerin. Propylene glycol does not decompose on heating, it simply boils. In theory, under certain conditions (pressure/encapsulation/catalysts) it could dehydrate to either acetone or Propionaldehyde, probably the former.
As for glycerine (= glycerol = VG = animal glycerine), that decomposes below its boiling point by a simple dehydration mechanism, to acrolein and water.

C3H8O3−→ΔC3H4O+2H2O
Acrolein could further degrade by a retro aldol condensation to acetaldehyde and formaldehyde. This could be catalysed by acids/bases (both of which are present in eliquids) or even by hot metal catalysts (such as the heating coil):

C3H4O−→−H+H3CCHO+HCHO
or

C3H4O−→−−−−hot metalH3CCHO+HCHO
These are well known reactions to any organic chemist, and are far more likely to happen than any vague/spurious 'oxidation' reactions as suggested by a few.

Why does propylene glycol form more carbonylated products than glycerol? Because it has a dual mode of dehydration. Really, this is a 'Have you stopped beating your wife?' question: PG and glycerol can form multiple carbonyl compounds, depending on what further side reactions happen:
Formaldehyde is stable, other than the possibility of oxidation to formic acid or carbon dioxide. Acetalydehyde can dimerize to crotonaldehyde. Acrolein can both dimerize, polymerise and undergo addition reactions, in all cases forming a variety of carbonyl compounds

One of the most bizarre things about some studies (including those of Dr Fasolinos), is that while formaldehyde and acetaldehyde are observed, there is insignificant acrolein. And he makes little comment about the latter! Don't you wonder where it's all going? I'd suggest that the bulk of the acrolein is decomposing to those two other carbonyl compounds.

Most aldehydes undergo oxidation over time, but this is not combustion taking place.

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 2:21pm

This was a good discussion on the topic I found many issues with the vague studies used to slander PG, peg and MCT (which is not simply cooking oil) it’s fractionated and then long LCTs are split up into shorter digestible compounds)

square_root_pharms · November 2, 2018, 2:28pm

I’ve seen the opposite to be true, where terpenes (food grade albeit) cause irritation, respiratory issues etc. Just on this board I’ve read about the woes of higher than 8% terpene solutions causing some serious side effects.

Killa12345 · November 2, 2018, 2:31pm

I think none of this shit is good for us. Pick your poison…Either you want to vape oil or a solvent. I personally hate all these cartridge and cuts but so many like them for convenience.

Its really what your willing to live with. I think this cutting concentrates is a slippery slope.

ky_cbd · November 2, 2018, 2:32pm

Future posted some very real concerns the other day about terpens being, caustic in nature, over time degrading the silicone gaskets that are in all of these carts.

ExTek90 · November 2, 2018, 2:32pm

Kinda makes me wonder… I’ve smoked at least 5 grams of distillate cut at 15% cannabis derived terpenes.

Smooth and delicious, gets me super ripped, never noticed any kind of irritation. Especially when dabbed it’s weird because I don’t even get the beginnings of a cough. However crystals, sauce, shatter, butter, rosin, full-melt bubble… all that stuff makes me cough. I’m at the point of presuming there’s something about the decarb that makes me cough.

Edit: Despite this fact… I predominantly dab sauce/diamonds and sugarwax. It gives the best overall experience in my opinion.

ky_cbd · November 2, 2018, 2:38pm

Just like you said its really pick your poison. At the end of the day we all know smoking in general is bad for our health and still chose to do so. Best case scenario, in my opinion, is to grow it your self and extract it yourself in something you can consume in a way that doesn’t require inhalation at all. Tinctures are a good way to do this i believe. We can only limit risks as much as possible and be as well informed as possible.

Myrrdin · November 2, 2018, 4:01pm

Sorry to disappoint but I never offered any studies. Please review my post. studies are meaningless to many cart users. if it turns out that it is safe to vape for instance MCT, I personally still wont cut with it because I tried it myself and it hurts after smoking it for a few days. No studies are needed for me to know its not good.

I do agree that Terpenes can be dangerous, I’ve seen it for myself when a lab tech spilled a high terp mix onto our epoxy floor, the spill got wiped up but to this day there is a discoloration where the spill happened so futures posts about caustic terps are very real, However some terps are more harmless than others.

Also consider some people have un-diagnosed allergy’s and could be more prone to be sensitive to limonene than MCT/PEG etc

There is soft tissue in the lung, we should all agree on that. My point is when you introduce just about any compound that could possibly irritate said soft tissue (Terps, PEG, MCT, VG,PG etc) your going to see some people who are more sensitive to one or another just like @Killa12345 said “Pick your poison”

Cruzinlabs · November 2, 2018, 5:02pm

At the end of the day I’ve seen just about every cart smoker not give a fuck what’s in there . That is what surprises me the most as long as the flavor is there. Most don’t even know it’s distilled and just say it’s wax. It’s not called hot dog water for nothing . Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care but we should be more careful what we put inside as the customer is very vulnerable at this product as it can be mixed or diluted or it could be something completely different to distillate and people buy it .

Mitten616 · November 3, 2018, 3:47am

Lmao hahahhaa,

But I do use this product… hate hate hate paying the high price for it and clicked on this thread to look for an alternative.

Mitten616 · November 3, 2018, 3:52am

Can I have the 50% off coupon code for the next time I order? Thanks