Hello Future4200 community, I have been follow the page for a few weeks now and this is my first post. I recently took over, run and manage a ethanol extraction and white film distillation process is the beautiful PNW. It has been a hard and fulfilling position and I am grateful every day.
With that being said, our Delta Cup-30 needed it’s belt replaced.
This is the first time I have encountered this problem and I was uncertain of how to handle it. So our first attempt we forced the new belt on as if we were putting on a bike chain. this worked for the first 2 cycles but the new belt shot off after making the machine shock so hard that it hopped a couple times.
Our second attempt was a bit better but it’s still shaking to hard. The whole machine moves with the wheels locked and even if I placed anti-shock pads under the wheels I fear there may be an internal issue.
My initial thought is that the red lever under the machine released the tension and I later found this to be correct with a bit of direction from a previous manager, who was helping out of the kindness of there heart. So I loosened the 4 bolts that hold the tension wheel in place, moved the lever with ease and replaced the belt. I had my partner pull the lever with all his strength as I tightened the bolts with all I had by hand.
At first this seemed to work better than ever but after the first cycle the machine started to act up again.
My thought was that the bolts aren’t tight enough and there wasn’t enough tension. So we applied as much force as we can. Which is saying something. we are 2 big guys. As the wheel is held in place I used an impact for maximum security. While also making sure not to over tighten and possibly break something.
Alas this didn’t even finish it’s cycle before acting up on us. So at this point I am at a loss and could really use some advice from anyone with experience with this. I have reached out to Delta but the company has been absorbed by another entity and I am uncertain as to whom yet.
If you made it to the end of this message, Thank you for taking the time and I hope you have a great night
ExtractionTek is the group handling CUP sales currently; how they are related to Prospiant (the company that took over for Delta) I am not completely sure. Check out their website ExtractionTek and see if you can get a hold of them. If not, shoot me a DM and I’ll look back to find the sales contact I’ve been talking to.
I’m interested in seeing how this plays out since their support will be a big factor in if we go with them.
Would recommend this if it’s a possibility. This man is the centrifuge doctor. Would also agree it sounds like something may have bent from the extra force of pulling the belt on that way
We are based out of Kitsap County. I would not be surprised if there is an internal piece bent. especially with how we first forced the new belt on. I want to learn how to fix this issue and how to prevent it from happening again in the future. My biggest concern is the safety of my employee and myself. The sound is atrocious, the belt is likely to fly of and hit some one and the D cup-30 pulls on the hold take the handle has fallen off multiple time. At this point I don’t feel comfortable running it till this issue is resolved. So a Centrifuge Doctor ( shout out @Shrimp) would be amazing.
I am still planning on reaching out to ExtractionTek this morning. As suggested by @dp621
Yeah- recently had some issues with a delta cup that we purchased new. They supported pretty well. Bounced to a few diff engineers, but get started with them… they have some guys that are familiar with these.
These companies just kept getting gobbled up
Is my understanding. No idea details.
I must add I was disappointed in parts of the machines quality. Couple small things, nothing major…but ya know you buy enough of this stuff and you just know when something is put together really really well.
What was the unit doing that made you first think you needed a new belt? Were the teeth on the original belt worn down and it was just spinning? Or were vibrations causing the concern to change the belt? Or it only started vibrating after you changed the belt?
I’ve never had to replace the belt, but what I have seen is an low/empty nitrogen tank for the fluid barrier reservoir result in excessive vibrations. Make sure your tank is connected, regulator open & set to 15psi to ensure that’s not the cause of vibrations.
That being said, you probably shouldn’t be fighting the belt change too much. I prob would have cut the old belt if it was bad & tried to just walk the new one around the pulley like how most vent fan belts are installed and not disassemble anything if possible, but idk I haven’t needed to do it.
How did you decide that the belt needed to be replaced? Was it shredded? Loose? Showing signs of wear? Something else completely?
How did you remove the first belt? Were you having any issues prior to removing the belt? Are those issues the same now as before?
In my experience - overtightening can cause just as much issues as under tightening. Do you have a set of drawings and manuals for your machine? I am assuming you have a technical report from PSI for it - which should include these things, and things like type/style of belt for replacement, as well as, type/size for the bolts and tension and what not.
I only worked on the Cup-15 and other unrelated centrifuges.
Can you freely spin it by hand without the belt? Any weird sounds? Does it have the same shimmy regardless of speed?
There are many centrifuge experts on this site - probably who could come and help you out for the right price.
You sure you have the right belt? Belt have different properties as well. A bit too big or small, wrong material, etc. - can lead to issues.
Everything else is balanced? No other weird noises when it spins up? Just the vibration?
Were you able to check the torque on the bolts? Check the tension on the belt? Is it what it says it should be?
Just one engineer’s opinion, you ought to get someone on sight to help address and potentially fix the issue.
Sounds like you’ve reached the extent of your ability to DIY.
If you get ahold of the right person at ETS I bet you they could get it handled. Otherwise I’d also say @cyclopath is a good bet, one of the smartest solvent-agnostic extraction folks out there
Yeah you’d need a pretty heavy force to bend the drive shaft. Maybe something became misaligned and then running the fuge loaded with weed and etoh bent it.
Placing a triclamp spray head on the bag to keep it submerged during agitate, then hitting spin without removing it is rumored to be sufficient on a CUP-15
Yeah, fortunately the main breaker stopped the carnage before said claymore babies actually got free…the driveshaft was toast.
I’ll give you that it IS how many (possibly even most) are installed, I’d argue that essentially none are designed to be mounted thusly.
(Edit: reread: vent fans may explicitly be that dumb, but real power transmission acknowledges that belts stretch/wear/vary in size due method of manufacture)
Without adjustable tension (belt path length adjustment) one loses power transmission quickly at both “too long” and “too short”.
FYI, that’s not how you’re supposed to put on bike chains either…
Walking the belt on should not have bent your driveshaft, but you may have damaged the belt, or even the pulley if you levered it on there…the fact that it spit it back at you suggests one of the following; you got the wrong belt, didn’t get it on correctly, or damaged the belt or pulley…it is certainly possible that the act of spitting the belt back may have exacerbated the problem, I still would not expect a bent shaft on CUP-30.
@Lincoln20XX was repeatedly bending drive-shafts on one of his machines, but it was neither built as well as the (later) CUP’s nor being treated in a manner the OEM had any reason to expect.
Can you confirm that the bearing isolator reservoir is full/connected/pressurized?
Best case: you neglected to reconnect after belt swap…
I’m about 80% confident that at some point we twisted the frame of that fuge - even after replacing pretty much every other part it would bend the shaft within a handful of runs, regardless of how gently we treated it.
Replacing the frame was a bit farther than even I wanted to go on that particular adventure.
I should probably thank it though, if it hadn’t died on us we may not have been pushed to make the switch to water.
I just want to start by thanking everyone who has helped and gotten involved. Thank you. Sincerely.
I still haven’t fixed the machine but I am getting closer to the solutions. I feel it
ExtractionTek definitely came in clutch. Thank you for the suggestion @cyclopath@dp621@HyRuleMO@TheGratefulPhil
I was able to speak with one of there technicians, he gave me some things to check and most importantly the manual for the Delta Cup-30. Which @Cassin I did not have anything of the sort prior to this. My training was word of mouth “tribal knowledge” training. With that being said, after reading the manual, rebuild drawing, and the drive unit replacement instructions there are a few things that have lead me to the conclude, as many of you already have, it is more than just the belt.
Both sets of bolts are tight. The set holding the motor in place and the locking screws that hold the tension. This was suggested to check by ETS. The belt is installed and there is no problem switching it out if it rips again.
@zaxlol@cyclopath Both of you mention hooking up the Nitrogen Tank. When I was first being trained I asked about the tank and hook ups specifically because they looked important. Why would it be there if you aren’t supposed to use it? I was told we don’t need it. I didn’t think anything on it till today. I read the OPTIONAL nitrogen system can be used instead of air. I was never told to use either. I was under the impression it was gravity fed our had it’s own internal restriction because I still had to top it off every week. The manual contradicted itself by saying the Nitrogen tank system is required at a 15psi rating after checking to see if the psi caps out at 20. So a few mixed signals I plan to speak with the technician about in the morning.
Along with the fact that I never knew the V.D.I. ( Vibration Dampening Isolators) needed to be pumped up and at the very least checked every month. So to put that in perspective that is about 11months of running the D-cup 30 without the nitrogen pressure nor the air pressure of the V.D.I. Minimum. The manual Says the each needs to be 40psi (+/-5psi) I don’t think they were even 10psi.
So after Pumping them all up, we found that the back middle V.D.I has a puncture and will not hold any air. Which makes sense to me. I can see where the centrifuge shook so hard it bent into one of the panels holding the V.D.I in place. Now I plan to inquire about purchasing a replacement part, and the nitrogen system. I can’t see, to get mine to hold any air pressure. It will fill up and the seep out.
And that is where I am at with things now. I am finishing up my day and it’s been a long one. Regardless I wanted to Thank everyone again and update everyone on this situation as well. So thank you for the support. This is one of the most fulling and difficult paths I have taken and the information and support yall provide is priceless @Future@sidco@cxojinu Shout out to yall for starting this site and to everyone else for keeping it going. I look forward to seeing us all continue to grow!
P.S. There was another thread posted on Sunday that, yes, was a copy and past of my first post. I posted them at the same time. One through my computer that needed the approval of @Future and received it on Sunday. Then the first post that actually showed up on Friday I had copy and pasted from my initial post because it didn’t show up and I wasn’t sure what was going on. So I posted it through my phone. Instantly worked. So I forgot about the first thread and went on with my time. So thank you @cyclopath for closing the unnecessary thread.
Pages 20-24 in your manual, it’s in the section about site preparation/installation. it is not optional, the purpose is to lubricate/cool mechanical seals in the unit.
(The optional section for air driven vs. nitrogen assisted transfers is not related)
If your tank is not empty but your regulator won’t seem to hold pressure, try and see if you can find any leaks at any obvious connection points/hoses/regulator. But it is likely those seals were damaged and that’s why it won’t hold now and probably where it’s leaking at.
it also sounds like you were dealing with a leak in having to top it up every week. If there are no leaks a tank will last a long time (over a year) and you shouldn’t have to continuously adjust the regulator, it should hold a constant psi until the tank starts running low. because it lasts a while it’s easy to forget to check on.
