I don’t know any filler that does it by weight. They’re all volumetric of one form or another as far as I know. So it’s also going to vary if your feedstock does.
JKEM has a good reputation for some of their other products. This is the first time I’ve seen that they have a filler. I suggest you check out Thompson Duke, many people have experience with them. I haven’t personally heard any bad reviews, not that that means that there aren’t any of course.
Pretty sure they have a dual head and/or bigger/faster model now. I don’t recall exactly, they’re all an order of magnitude too small for my liking.
lol… you’ve never seen how pharma fills vials and syringes I guess.
Hope you cart filler makers get your money while you can because the big boys already have this equipment down.
pharmaceutical companies brute force their problems with both labor and money. Good luck brute forcing the cannabis market. I’ll see you at the liquidation sale
I’m just so shocked we are having the investment vs growth debate in 2022, years after investment heavy companies have been gobbled up by companies that started in a garage
I believe what you are seeing is the difference in oncoming federal legalization
Smart people don’t make soft bets on illegal or quasi legal endeavors in my opinion
Although that is also the opinion of many very successful people I have met
Maybe. To me, the small fillers who do it smaller scale to ensure quality control will last longer.
Can you shoot me a DM? Wanna talk more about this with you to get some more insight.
Man federal legislation will spell the end of quality/small batch craft, legally at least.
All the small mom pop shops, or smaller craft batch oriented companies will either go out of business, be bought out and corporatized, or go to BM.
This is untrue. You also need to account for lead-screw backlash, step angle, flow volume to open/close the passive valve, and then if you start to cool down the oil and increase the backpressure, a stepper motor does not have a way to determine absolute position. You need an encoder or servo for proper accuracy to achieve low-temp flow at the very edge of the temp/viscosity curve.
Just because something runs a stepper motor, does not automatically mean it is accurate. During development, we were only able to achieve ±3% with a stepper motor alone. We had to add a 2nd motorized valve, an encoder and real-time speed correction, and an anti-backlash screw assembly to get to get perfect dosing.
No, not really. #1 there are volume discounts, #2 you are doing all these “comparisons” assuming an 80C+ temp in the farmers, and sub 65C in the JF/VJ, #3 even at full-price, no discounts, and using numbers that don’t reflect the actual throughput, you are still under 2YR ROI. (Using a $35k/yr Wook cost which is an underestimate.)
Our average cycle time is ~6-8 minutes for a full 100 rack. But even if it were not, you fail to mention the impact of high temp oils to the evaluation. Lower temps = longer time before issues. Lower temps + pressurized reservoir = more preserved terps. Lower temps means less degradation of oil in the first place, less failures due to clogging and leaks, and just overall higher quality products.
If the best is strapping a repeater to a stepper, then I should just give up on the ±.05% and switch to a repeater system. It would sure be a lot simpler than using mechanical valves and pressurized systems. Then we can crank the temps to 80C+, gravity feed it, and scream through just as fast.
Should we do that? Should we release a Vape-Jet Repeater system? It’s honestly not that much engineering effort, and would greatly reduce our build costs. (Our fluid path BOM cost alone is >$4k) I’ve never given it much thought because I like to aim for accuracy and reliability over speed, but I also do listen to customers and will build what is wanted.
My staff just informed me this is a lie.
They are right.
Our oldest open ‘feature’ request that is still in the “possibly never” category is also one of the most customer requested.
“Add option to use Fahrenheit / Inches instead of Celsius / Meters in GUI”
It sounds like a semi auto model may benefit your sales VapeJet
If what qma says is true that 40k unit per day facilities are using them then there’s probably plenty of meat on the bone
I do commend you for aiming for a .05% variance that’s the type of precision that will carve out the future
There is plenty! CartFarm stuff works extremely well. I have no qualms there, except saying the only difference in precision is moving between carts. Repeaters have a place, but by their very nature require tradeoffs in viscosity and accuracy / repeatability.
We have one, but again it’s built for a slightly different purpose. It doesn’t get the speeds that repeaters do unless you really crank up the params (Temp, Pressure, Etc) beyond what we recommend or advise. Even after that, our pumps are designed for accuracy and viscosity over speed.
Not trying to dig on QMA’s products at all, they are damn good for their intended purpose. I believe his arguments against automation and the benefits of it are incorrect.
Well as I do for everyone I will pray you find your way to life where you aren’t at odds and feeling hurt by the world
I truly appreciate all of the attention this post has garnered I now am in contact with several manufacturers and distributors
It seems I may get my hands on a list of JKEM operators after all provided some phone conversations go well
Thank you all again for your input and suggestions
Hope all goes well and you find what you want my friend.
Keep looking and always try something new if you can’t get to where you want.
My bad for going off without explanation. I never brought this up on future4200 so I should explain my beefs with long filling times:
Carts feed their coil using gravity. To prevent flooding the coil, the gravity is slowed with the bernoli principle. If you fill a cup under water and invert it so the rim is lowest, you can lift water above the surface of the water. As long as air isn’t allowed to replace water flowing out, the power of vacuum is greater than the power of gravity and the fluid stays in place.
If you fill too slow, it takes too much time to create this closed environment. Capping carts seals the headspace and prevents leaking. This leaking happens naturally lust minutes after cartridges are filled. In most carts it causes clogs, while in ccell, it causes massive bubbles.
I asked vape jet to include an interior capping feature and it was denied, which is a shame because their fluid path is superior to other fluid paths. It means that that fluid path and the proper filling and capping procedure will never exist in the same product.
@VapeJet answer to the capping limit is using a tray based capping system, but the cost of shipping in racks or re-racking is more than the 40 seconds saved with modern disposable’s snap top design. The time that could be saved is inside the filler system, either using more nozzles to limit this time, or less carts per tray.
If you want to use an automated solution, make sure the solution can cap your carts immediately. I brought up the cnc packager for that reason. Its extremely slow, but it caps carts less than a minute after they are filled. If you go with a “conventional” auto filler, you will run into issues with headspace and coil flooding.
If you are really trying to make a fully automated facility, make sure the facility can meet your production demands without having to resort to manual filling because then you will have to deal with me
I do appreciate the information
As I mentioned I’m looking to gauge the longevity of precision and success in engineering as the system I have in mind does not currently exist yet JKEM has quite the reputation
However it is very reminiscent of equipment used in pharmaceutical bottling and filling and works in a very similar manner
There is limited design options in this space it seems so engineering may need to be sourced
Looking forward to where this may lead
Imo, cannabis should separate its self from Pharma. But I can see why people look at their automation
what kind of oils are you pumping threw it at that fill rate and how hot is the hopper?
Greetings,
Very insightful Discussion here. For those still looking for a solid automated solution, our company makes both a semi automatic filler The C-SOLO, and a fully automatic filler and capper called the C900. We work with many small to midsize companies, and a nice portion of the biggest MSO’s in the space. This experience has allowed us to stay in step with innovation to provide automation and consistency without empty promises. Below are some of the most popular features of our offerings:
The C-SOLO handles almost any hardware(Carts, pods, luer lock syringes, and disposables).
It also handles any particulate free formulation of any viscosity (including live rosin), and at lower temps than the majority of the solutions out there.
It’s foot operated and can fill up to 1800 units per hour.
The C-SOLO is compact(Weighs about 12 pounds) making it easy to move around, and fit in the tightest of work environments.
Our C900 series automatically fills and caps in under 10 seconds or less which solves the headspace issue that was touched on in this post earlier in the thread.
It uses the same patented syringe system as the C-SOLO so it too handles all particulate free formulations including live rosin.
It can produce up to 1400 units per hour filled and capped with 1 operator.
The C900 can be tooled for press fit, twist on, pods, disposables, and a whole host of other special hardware styles as we have the means to rapidly produce custom solutions for those customers who need a special solution. We do a lot of work on automation projects outside of just the filling space for those interested in working with us.
Also the C900 has a fairly small footprint for the volume is produces (takes up about a 3’X3’ space)
If you made it this far this point in the post and would like more information. Feel free and send us a DM here or on our website. Thanks!
~ CNC Packaging Inc
meant to post this elsewhere sry