Which is what most ppl are trying to achieve. What is your “end goal” you are implying can be achieved on an active system that can’t be achieved on a passive system, except that you can’t flow in the opposite direction??? Why would I want to reverse the direction?? The point here if I’m not mistaken is to make concentrates at a commercial scale, and if I’m also not mistaken Time=Money, so it seems to me that being fast would be what most ppl desire. Is there anyone here that doesn’t run a continuous process?? Again isn’t that the point???
It takes me about a minute, if that, to blast a column, and after the blast everything is back into full recovery. It makes no difference if I am pulling from the material column or the collection pot since they are both happening simultaneously, so for me to have to close my recovery off for a minute really doesn’t equate to being enough of a hinderance to need to add in a second solvent tank. Sure it makes things more convenient at times, but I’d say that’s more of a luxury that makes very little difference in speed. Lastly where does a pump come into this equation?? Because having a pump doesn’t make you able to pump back into the same solvent take you are injecting out of without closing off recovery. Where is the nitrogen going to go when I inject it into my solvent tank and my pump is still running recovery???
By that logic then wouldn’t your smartest plan of action be to just get a huge collection pot and huge tank of solvent and blast a shit ton of tubes all at once then recover it as fast as possible at the end???
My pressure even when I am heating my collection pot rarely hits 5psi. If your solvent tank is cold enough it should keep the pressure on your entire system down. We also have a bleed valve on the solvent tank to bleed off any nitrogen during recovery (obviously) but this also assists with any pressure buildups in the collection pot, that rarely happen but the nitrogen of course finds its way thru.
You would want to reverse direction to switch from recovering to flooding.
When I say continuous process I’m pretty much talking about a FFE. Sorry I wasn’t very clear on that.
Most people that make dabbing quality oil are using batch systems where the collection pot is the evaporator and we stop the process to harvest the oil (a non-continuous process).
A continuous process in my mind has an intermediate tank between extraction and recovery that constantly feeds the FFE with fresh solution from the extractor. Partially recovered oil is removed from the FFE for finishing so the FFE runs continuously, no stopping. A batch system stops the evaporation process to collect the oil.
I’m not sure what size columns you’re running but I run 6x24’s.
Running propane with about 100 psig head pressure in the tank it takes me about 60 seconds to completely flood a column (dry trim) and get liquid flowing into collection pot, longer if I need to saturate the CRC.
With dry material I then let the liquid flow for about 90-120 seconds to get a complete extraction. Sometimes longer if I have a large CRC or I’m running highly resinous material.
I run active so I don’t need to pressurize my tank with N2 (or at all) to flood and I use warm solvent vapor to clear the columns so I never need to stop to vent N2 vapor or vacuum out my solvent tank like you do with a passive/N2 system. (Do you vacuum out your tank? It doesn’t sound like it.)
Since you do use N2 though, don’t you need to flush out the column and vent that N2 before you start recovering to avoid stalling? For me with warm vapor and CRC it takes about 2 minutes on average to flush so I’ll use that time.
So now we’re up to about a hypothetical 5 minutes to flood, rinse and clear a 6x24. During this time a passive system would have stalled/reduced recovery due to the presence of N2, wouldn’t it?
If you’re interested in fast recovery, the easiest thing you can to do right out the gate is run propane instead of butane. I honestly wonder why people still run butane when propane blows it out the water IMO. Propane is, however, more volatile and builds pressure faster.
When I valve off my collection pot to discretely recover my column and I leave the collection pot heat on the pressure in the pot will climb from 20 psig to 50psig+ (propane) just in the 60 seconds it takes for me to recover the column down to 0 psig.
If I had to leave the pot valved off for 4-5 minutes while I pressurized the tank with N2, flooded the column then cleared it and then had to vent/vac the N2 like a passive system, the pot pressure would reach dangerous levels. This would necessitate turning off the heat on the pot which just adds yet another step onto this whole dance, and even worse, presents a serious chance for things to go wrong in a very bad way.
If you run a bunch of columns in a day having to do all of that for each one is very tedious IMO even if its just 5 minutes or so.
Why even mess with the whole idea of pausing recovery to begin with? Why not just run a system that recovers constantly and is able to flood at anytime without the need to use any N2 and the associated venting and vacing?
With a proper compressor the recovery speed difference is not that significant for most people running batch systems IMO.
Side question: Does having to keep a cold tank make it difficult or impossible to use warm vapor for assisting in a passive system?
Those pressure buildups are likely residual N2 that you haven’t properly vented from the system.
Have you seen how passive systems like a Bizzy use a diaphragm/venturi vacuum pump to pull out the last bit of N2 from the system? I believe it’s part of the SOP for using N2 assist.
Are you doing that? I’m confused by the fact that it seems some passive guys do this and some don’t, can someone explain that?
Also, I know that high efficiency evaporators like a FFE will run at low pressures like 5 PSI but in a batch evaporator (collection pot) where you’re not evaporating the liquid instantaneously, wouldn’t your recovery rate benefit from having higher pressure (more vapor generation) in the pot so your overall delta P is higher?
Yes I think that would be the smartest plan. You can see how this leads you down the path to a continuous process with a FFE.
Instead of “blasting” all the tubes then recovering, why not just blast them and recover instantly? You might as well just set it up so the whole process non-stop runs all day long.
If all you run is very large batches or you just run crude and don’t need to separate batches of oil I agree this makes sense.
I get batches of material that can range from several hundred pounds down to 5-10 pounds. I have a few different sized pots that I use. I have a huge collection pot that I use for the big batches but it wouldn’t be good for small batches, just like a large FFE might not be good for smaller batches.
My passive times were about 45 mins for 12 lb of butane which is really fast for passive by the time I was ready to pour my run off I could have another run ready to go into the same pot therefore I could do 3-4 runs in about 3 hours and have one big pour off. Now I am running active and the times arnt all that much faster but I don’t have to use nearly the same amount of dry ice and the active set up just makes it easier for a lot of things.
Out of curiosity, what other things do you find easier with an active setup? As long as the pump is properly sized it should be very close to the same speed you were with passive.
Are you using N2 for pressure assisting or warm vapor?
Ever though about giving pure propane a shot?
IMO, the biggest thing someone who is concerned with recovery speed can do is switch to propane.
Lol did I ask you how to operate no I asked what your times are. I haven’t ran passive in a while but I remember my runs at the time we’re 20ish lb of solvent and I would get back 12lb with my water at 100f in 45 minutes top with how I ran before that worked out perfect for me I have seen others passively recover waaaaaay slower
I don’t use dry ice anymore I just use regular ice with my active set up I’m sure it would speed it up a lot but I don’t have any need to as it being done faster is just rushing me to get ready for the pour when I have other things I can be doing while it recovers