At 1,000lbs/shift. I could definitely get you in that range under 400k with chillers and heater included. And all USA built.
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IIRC, you all are recycling the heat needed to evaporate the solvent for recovery back into chilling the extraction solvent, correct?
Also, your āutility compressorā is performing a traditional refrigeration cycle on the process solvent (propane) and turning it into a chilling media, correct?
These questions are rhetorical and I donāt expect a direct answer because Iām sure you all donāt want to give away patent pending secrets on a public forum. Those claims are impressive and it seems like you guys have a real nice piece of tech!
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While Iām sure this is true, keeping cold columns cold is the least energy intensive part of the process. Getting them down there is the part that takes the most energy and if I had to guess, thatās why your website states ā200 Amp Electrical Service is Requiredā and ā3 Phase Power is Requiredā for both the R600 and R800.
Still, seems like yāall have a cool piece of equipment.
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Canāt wait to see @Zack_illuminatedās chiller!!!
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Right? I wish I could be going to the Chemtek/illuminated classā¦
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I really wanna see it. I think twisted and I are gonna go. Weāre talking about it at least
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It does still use the base model of a refrigeration system, but they are limited by many factors. The biggest being the cooling capacity is limited by what the compressor can physically move. Another limit is how cold you can get with a single refrigerant. Our tech provides the solution to both of these problems.
The utility system (thermal control) is isolated from the process side (extraction). All of our extraction systems now have this feature built into them.
That is to run the entire system, the process compressor is much larger than the utility compressor and will see a much larger power draw when moving large volumes of solvent. At the utility compressor we have measured 17 amps to both cool down and maintain temperature on all 10 columns. It actually draws less power the cooler it gets.
Also we list the power by the component listed FLA instead of our observed consumption as it adds in a buffer window.
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Do it, so I can text you guys for the entire week following the class asking questions about itā¦
Lol
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All systems come with a 50 state engineering peer review from Pressure Safety Inspectors.
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You can get a -50 outdoor chiller with 22.5kW@-50/ 30.1kW@-40 for under 100k. That one chiller can handle maintaining tank/jacket temps, solvent chilling, and recovery.
Wont need a million dollar chiller to process 1000lbs/shift. At 10hours/shift its 100lbs/hour, not that crazy honestly if your recovery can keep up.
For 500-600k you could get material racks from ETS and two FFE that cruise 6-8lbs/minute. Thatās plenty to get your scale pending you can pre-load/store that many material socks lol.
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Ouch, only 6-8 lbs a minute and trying to process 1000# per shiftā¦ gonna be running a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio, definitely going to leave some product behind.
At this scale you are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain every day. 
One GD1 can handle over 20#/minute, the Behemoth has two. FFEās might be faster than a basin but are slower than a RFE or WFE. There is more solvent retained from a FFE vs WFE. We have had crude come out right at the 5000ppm threshold or as a liquid pour because we re-injected extra solvent before draining.
The Behemoth R600 is moving upwards of 30#/minute of solvent. If you run a tighter ratio than our 15:1 or 20:1 you can run more bio than quoted.
We have measured 32kw of cooling at -40c on this unit. Determined by taking our inlet temperature, outlet temperature, volume moved and density. We also compared this to how long it took to get a set volume of solvent to a set temperature. This value is from only one column of the system while all 10 were maintaining cold.
If you want a smaller system, we have plenty of options. The Turbo is a single column unit, the Turbo Max a 2 column unit, and the Manticore a 4 column unit. All featuring the same thermal control system and patent pending technologies. Lots of options available.
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100 lbs/hr of material = 1500 lbs/hr of solvent at a 15:1 solvent ratio
this means 1500 lbs/hr of solvent needs to be condensed and recovered
I wonāt bore you with math but thatās approximately 250,000 BTU/hr or ~70kW JUST to condense butane, let alone the rest of the chilling processes mentioned. Now these numbers get better as you go with lower solvent ratios, but the necessity of sacrifices is exactly the point Iām trying to make. If you want a system that can truly operate at scale with no sacrifices, that price tag gets crazy.
You do bring up a good point I didnāt think about, which is using multiple smaller chillers instead of one monster chiller. Cost tends to increase somewhat exponentially as you push the extremes and you can mitigate that through multiple smaller chillers.
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As mentioned before, the math on the thermodynamics doesnāt work out with ONLY 32kW of cooling at a 15:1 ratio unless the remaining 38kW of cooling is coming some other way, or if the resulting temperature rise is somehow accounted for in the sequence of operations in the system.
Edit: And thatās only talking about Propane which is nice because itās BP is around -40c. If youāre talking Butane, then itās not only the amount of chilling needed to condense at 0c but also the sensible heat required to chill back down to -40c.
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Ahh here you are to comment about how amazing your machine is againā¦
Remember you claiming you have more surface area in your wiper body than a tube-in-shellā¦ Lets do some mathā¦
Your 6" tube approx. 50" Long (for this calculation), .120 wall thickness, has an internal surface area of 904in/squaredā¦
A 1/2" tube approx 50" long (for this calculation), .065 wall thickness, has as internal surface area of 59in/squared.
So a tube-in-shell exchanger with 30 1/2" tubes, has 1,770in/squared of surface area opposed to the 904in/squared of your Wiperā¦
That is a 49% increase of internal surface area inside the exchanger.
Got anymore other BS stuff you want me to run the math on for ya?!?
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Not too crazyā¦ We are here to provide that solution. The āmillion dollar refrigerationā is included with our system. There is no second purchase to make after the system is purchased.
Our system is the most energy efficient unit on the market. Period. Quite honestly, as we move into automation, soon our system will be able to completely run itself with itself.
We have also ditched the hot water heater and now expensive chillers and co2. Our system gets colder than co2 and faster than co2 without the cost of co2.
I am glad you see the hiccup with the traditional system. Everything you need is there already if you know how to apply it. Problems are actually solutions. The TCS uses propane only.
Lets not forget to multiply in the RPM at which the shell is being wiped and new product is making contact with its surfaceā¦
Have you ever used a spd? Perhaps a lighter on a cold day? Simply by agitating the liquid you create more vapors because more liquid made contact with the minimal surface area. A cold lighter wonāt light until it is shaken, no more physical area is needed, simply by agitating the contents more vapor is generated, thereby allowing the lighter to create flame.
This has to be one of the most basic aspects of physics and also the most overlooked.
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A FFE (depending the amount of tubes) will always out perform a WFE/RFE given the length of the exchanger and provided kW is linearā¦
Oh yea, and no mechanical moving parts that require seals or wiper replacementā¦
WFEās are amazing and have their place, but for removing a volatile solvent with a huge BP difference to the oil, a FFE or RFE is supremeā¦
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Sounds like a new competition is in order
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Seriously though. Much more interesting Imo than a spd compā¦
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The RPM does not change the maximum surface area of the exchanger thoughā¦
This is exactly why the heat and thermal characteristics of a WFE are very hard to get concrete/accurate mathematics onā¦
How do you size a WFE for a specific process? Oh yea, surface area of the cylinder the wiper sits inā¦
Again, a tube-in-shell will provide MORE surface area in the same exact width and length column, period.
WFE = Less Surface Area
FFE = More Surface Area
Again, given parameters are linear across the comparison, which one has the potential to generate more vapor?
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Iām being really careful to provide actual rebuttals to claims being made, instead of the just coming out and saying itās bullshit. This is because Iām well aware that there is lots of potential to elegantly achieve real world results of 1000#/shift of extraction that donāt involve brute forcing with monster chillers and making sure all the math lines up. Iām giving the benefit of the doubt that an āelegantā solution is how you guys have achieved your throughput, but please excuse me if I remain skeptical until my rebuttals have been addressed with actual information instead of a sales-pitchy response.
Iām excited to hear the feedback from other members after seeing it in-person later this month! Iād be highly interested to go see it and hopefully quell my skepticism but the price is a little steep, and the travel is a little bit too far for me.
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