As you were unaware of all thcp effects, you obviously have never successfully made any. We’ve made a lot and understand it.
As for making a bad product:
Putting in bad d8.
Putting in a terpene diluent KNOWN to have solvents in it.
Failing to do proper tests on a smoking machine and ensuring the flavors are leaving in tact.
I’ve tasted many bad things when poor carts are used. Combine that with someone who is adding terpenes that taste awful and the experience won’t be good.
I know of one vendor who sent me terpenes and I felt they were so bad I wouldn’t use them as a solvent.
As you don’t understand how someone can make a cart taste bad, flavors must be mixed at exact ratios and concentrations. Minor changes effect the taste. If they arent volatilized properly then it’s all bad.
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are you saying some boof terpenes would be able to negate the effects of THCP? lul, that’s almost as creative as that other shit about me wanting to “work with you”.
@labofsand was the sample cart provided @moveweight from you directly or from a 3rd party?
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bullshit. what was i unaware of? it’s a high potency CB1 agonist, its qualitative effects thus aren’t any kind of mystery to someone officially qualified by way of a federal license to talk about pharmacology like i am.
what you reported exactly matches the expected profile: D9-like activity with an extreme duration, in conjunction with subsequent downregulation of CB1 receptor density and induction of COX-2 leading to unphysiologically low Endocannabinoid levels, hence the subjective dysphoria and lack of motivation for several days.
yeah, good luck with that. there’s no economical way to get any actually useful precursors to sidechain modified cannabinoids from hemp.
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We tried several carts, and created our own coils with Kanthal, Stainless Steel, and Nickel (for temp control).
We adjusted the power and temp from 3.7v to 5v in a 1.3 and 1.8 ohm cart. We also tried a sub-ohm build to try and get higher temps (425f)
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All of the products I have seen come in a standard ccell type cart used for oil/distillate. Are you recommending something different?
After trying the THCp and CBDP 4-6 times, from different batches and products, including the initial sample, we have some concerns that seem to relate to this. The effects have been totally inconsistent and impossible to predict. The same cart will have very different effects on the same person, on a different day. After talking with 3 companies that sell THCP carts, their users are reporting the same thing.
The 3 brands that we personally work with, none seem happy. Two of the companies seem to be trying to make the best of the situation, and the other has pulled the product. The canned answer, basically, is : user experience varies. The brand that pulled their product asked me “If you found a product that would either do nothing, or knock you into next week, randomly, would you buy it?”. Personally, no.
We (me and my co-workers and friends) like to blast into space every now and then but this is only a couple steps up from getting dosed in a punch bowl.
I am not going to mess with it anymore because I am worried that I could be damaging my receptors. All of the wild stories of visuals etc seem to be from “a guy on Reddit “ or “someone I spoke to” . Personally I had little to no effect on all but one experience. That one experience was interesting enough to get me to try to repeat it but it doesn’t seem possible . This is why I am concerned about my receptors.
I am not a chemistry person but I have over 20 years of experience with novel and time tested attitude adjusters.
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This has always been my understanding too. The challenge is not necessarily the synthesis but rather the economic feasibility of producing CBDP at scale. My education is still limited so I have to assume it’s not impossible that a creative chemist has found a way – this could be a lucrative market which is always a great incentive – but I have to admit I’ve been skeptical while reading this discussion the past several weeks. 5-Heptylresorcinol is the obvious starting point to create a cannabinoid with a heptyl sidechain and the price quotes I’ve heard would make anyone here laugh if they thought about trying to scale production of a synthetic cannabinoid using that as a precursor. I am extremely interested in this discussion but I find it hard to believe that KCA didn’t test a polished sample. I always love being proven wrong though, it means I’ve learned something new.
This seems obvious but I’ll say it anyway: Anyone who receives a THCP sample in the wild should ignore the third party COA even if it is confirmed by a reputable lab and have it independently tested themselves. THCP: measure twice, puff once.
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"Comparisons between the agonist- and antagonist-bound CB1 complexes show notable structural rearrangements around an extended twin molecular toggle switch (F200 and W356), whose activation leads to G protein binding and plasticity in the orthosteric binding pocket that can accommodate a variety of ligands with different shapes and sizes. " “F200 functions as a latch to restrict the movement of W356 and locks CB1 in the inactive state unable to bind G proteins.” "
(https://www.caymanchem.com/news/cannabinoid-signaling-insights-to-future-pharmacotherapeutic-development)… review of CB1
receptor structure and pharmacology…2020 must read produced by Cayman.
Just pointing out that inactive states of CB1R are know to exist.
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very valuable info, thanks!
I too am no chemistry person but I do wonder if maybe the problem could be as simple as improper homogenization. It seems to me that at such high dilution rate the concentration could vary from puff to puff. I know nothing of your production methods and they are most likely excellent, but have you considered this?
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What we are hearing here may well be a natural phenomeon (inactivation) associated with “full agonist” binding.
"Until proven otherwise we should consider their product legit. "
Edit: a month later!..
this entire subject line about THCp products has turned into such
a shit show…see below…I would say the players involved in production
"have proven themselves to be ““otherwise””.
I think we should keep in mind that partial agonism with THC is
a remarkable, recreational experience. The inverse agonist Rimonabant is an [antiobesity drug] was discontinued due to serious psychiatric side effects. Full agonist use results in similar problems. CB1 is a “strange receptor” to agonize. The CB1 allosteric binding site is referred to as “plastic” in its conformation and changes differently in response to specific agonist binding at the classic site.
What I am saying is, we think about “CB1-agonism” from an acculturated view of “THC induced partial agonism.” This is not what CB1 activation is “all about”.
We need a standard bioassay method that will control for CB1 inactivation. (more later).
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In the end point, “hemp sourced” material…
will be a legal question. Not scientific.
It is possible labsofsand has a legal team working
on that issue.
But your point is well taken. And no one is talking
specific synthetic pathways…possibilities…?
“How real could this be?”
it appears he also threatened disappointed customers with financially ruining them if they spoke up. that’s really not something someone would do who’s 100% convinced their product cannot be at fault.
The line between an antagonist and an inverse agonist can get pretty blurry, ha!
Pharmacology is such a strange beast in general, increasingly so when dealing with dirty drugs like cannabinoids! So far, it’s proven difficult to make selectively targeted cannabis therapeutics, as cannabinoids interact with so many molecular signaling pathways and affect plenty more upstream and downstream processes.
Rimonabant didn’t do what we thought it would, and so far, neither have any drugs inhibiting MAGL and/or FAAH.
I’ve said for years that there’s at least one Nobel Prize in untangling the orb weaver web of interactions involving the endocannabinoid system. I believe that now more firmly now than ever.
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Indeed! You can not think receptor! Think in terms of Hopfield, feed forward chemical networks, perhaps with some feed back control…i.e., de facto “AI network response.” The entire thing is a transform of dynamic states. I would agree with you, a “prize” is out there however, the possibility being beyond the horizon of human comprehension is large. (Emergent.) I am not sure neurobiologists
have had their Ah-ha moment yet. Lipid signaling: “How real could this be?” Your comment is appreciated.
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yo @labofsand i’m deafened by those crickets, do i gotta whip out the DDT or what?
Ive had a few and no feelings much of anything others are knocked out it seems
What brand did you purchase?