Winterization Testing

Hi I am looking to test our winterization processes. I was wondering what the typical fat/wax content is from a typical CO2 extract is (estimate would be great) and any similar food grade oil to cannabis in regards to fat/wax content to use as a trial run for our process.

Totally depends on the starting material.

1 Like

Hoping you can help explain this to me: How are CO2 extraction equipment vendors getting away with claiming a “Solvent free process” when to the best of my understanding: 1. CO2 is being used as a solvent and 2. CO2 extraction typically undergoes ethanol winterization.

If I’m wrong about either of those things I apologize.

5 Likes

CO2 extraction manufacturer here…

Technically speaking it is not solvent-free, but it is considered solventless. The classification, albeit semantics, refers to residual solvent post extraction. Any remaining CO2 in your extract will either off gas (like pouring a Coke and having the bubbles) or sublimate (dry ice directly to gaseous form) at room temperature leaving zero residual CO2 in your extract.

2 Likes

Thank you! That is the best explanation I’ve heard. The amount of BS other manufacturers have tried to pull in discussions is frustrating. Definitely keeping your company in mind if I run into anyone looking to jump into CO2.

1 Like

Happy to help clarify!

Typical is around 25% depending on parameters. Subcritical will have a lower lipid content that supercritical because at higher psi you increase the solvency capabilities of your CO2, increasing efficacy and decreasing runtimes overall.

Anyone who isn’t pulling waxed and lipids out of their feedstock With CO2 extraction is not running through to completion. i.e. leaving cannabinoids in their biomass.

2 Likes

Hi guys!

Would it not be resasonable to start a lets say 2h run collect the result and then repeat the process till you get to the point you see waxes extracting.

This would be your point of extracting the cannabinoids and terps. And the leftover is then sadly left to etoh acde cleansing to achieve total extraction.

As I undrstand ( CO2 n00b here), with subcritical you dont get to pull as many waxes as supercritical. But sub doesnt let you pull as selectevly as you might want to with super.

Also might I ask if someone is processing SubC02 with hemp kief.

Im starting a couple of preliminary runs and a few pointers would be much much aporeciated.

Thankx guys this is one or maybe the most insigjtfull forum out there =) keep up the :heart:

1 Like

What system do you have? If you have multiple collection vessels you are better off doing one run and using pressure and temperature gradients to fraction the result. I’ve approached it both ways before we finslly settled on a few ideal recipes here. We tried subcritical terpene runs followed by supercritical extractions. The best result we get is from a fairly thorough extraction and then dropping density into three subsequent fractions: one is full of color and waxes, the second is beautiful yellow wax (still needs processing, but very little of that co2 red to be found) and the third is a very low viscosity terpene fraction.

1 Like

Ive found co2 extract to need a 10:1 ratio with most filter setups. It tends to have a very high wax content. Typically we did it in stages. Room temp, 0C and -20C througu 20 micron. Then -20C through 1 micron if it needed it.

4 Likes

Hey thnx for the insight much appreciated!

@Upsetter we ll its a 1lbs. Subcritical extractor with one collection vessel sadly. Its an experimental setup ready to scale to 80L if our results will be good. But we have to see what we can pull out. Trial an error I guess.

Found info on the net suggesting that 75bar 1100psi and 25 degrees would be ok for terp+cannabinoids. It seems a bit arbitrary cause no additional info was attached about the supposed solubility properties of CO2 at those parameters.

But the thing is I see real potential with this method to skip the winterization step with the right parameters which is just more heartache because residual solvents are blasphemy in europe…

Still the fraction that is supposed to come later and full of waste can be later procesed and put into other products with Etoh or maybe a SPD. But two products attract more people than one and mixin them in ratios couldproduce some great medicinal combos.

The machine master, before we met, had succesfully extracted shysandra rubiflora ( gold extract), artemisia annua( emerald green extract, that resembled most a crude crude hemp waxy CO2 i saw readily 2,3years ago), and some other interesting mushrooms Iforgort their names.

The terps on those extraxts are off the chart and the textures and structures were very very different from very appealing to shity=) so im guessing with right tunning and ofcourse the time component we could achieve similar results…

@BreakingDabs
Before this I found a hillbilly with a SFE at home. He made me a molasy ruby extract with 70% CBx 4%terp. He used a 100nm filter and the material because it was not ground up( whole but extraction- longer story than this), did not dark up the extracts because his run was really short aswell with lower settings than supercritical. So im guessing with a 1nm sieve I would have an even higher potency because some unwanted residue came through the 100.

The biomass was premium CBD buds and the buds stayed totaly intact even leaving a bit of terps and cbx on it so it could be again procesed and yield a very very nice crude.

So im guessing the material wasnt under supercritical conditions judging on the exiting biomass and the resulting mollasi terp extract.

Im just waiting if he will cave in and buy a better sieve than a 100nm and listen to your advice guys=)

Again thnx for sharing imma post some pice as soon as I get my hands back on the extract… Friends took it hostage cause in europe a good CO2 is kind of a unicorn :slight_smile:

And have some rest people, tommorow is another working week =)

Have you ever really tested it for residual CO2 to say that? Propane is also a gas at room temperature, but it still comes up residual in extracts. Water that just sits out at room temperature collects some co2 from the air.

1 Like

Would residual CO2 pose a threat to the consumer in edibles or cosmetics?

With combustion of the product it could be an issue but even here please explain how since were sucking up more dangerous substances with dabing all in all?

Because then its no other sanctum, than those rosin presses all the way =)))

No, i don’t think it poses a threat. I was just curious

I think I found an average of about 15% mass lost as filtered wax when winterizing CO2 crude. Depending on your filtration setup you might be able to get away with a very concentrated ethanol/crude miscella. People talk about 1:4 but I would do closer to 1:5 or 1:6 crude:ethanol ratio (by volume). 2x nights, at -20C.

Do us and yourself a favor. Test the raw crude out of the extractor for potency, and then test your finished winterized crude for potency and see if there is much of a difference. Also, test the waste wax for THC potency. I have a hunch the waxes pull a hefty amount of THC along for the ride.

I did a charchoal test.

Two types. Two doses. Both fitered and winteris3d.

One charchoal resulted in a dense percipitation and crash to the bottom of the flask.
The other stood there in midssuspension.

In the end the first had a 10-14% loss in weight
And a 17-21% loss in the material of the secknd charchoal.

So winterization can crash difderently due to the charchoal… Im wating for the results of waxes and the end mateial. But the collor was a ruy red and an deep orange

So keep u posted.