Who sells huge cryo chillers that aren't huge disappointments?


#41

Hi Greenbuggy,

thank you for your recap on our technicians visit. You are blaming HUBER mgmt. to have " f… up" ?
Let me give you my view to the events !
Someone else made a decision to buy a 1.5KW chiller to handle 100 gallons. Ask who that was please!
I talked to Bizzy Bee who sold you them machines, and he said you simply have the wrong expectations.
Bizzy Bee is aware of HUBER offering 920/930 and bigger machines and the cooling power needed.
Its word against word and you have not been involved. I am not pointing any fingers here but lets stay clear:
Hubers Management send a tech to your place and we try to help you and size the right unit. We also offered to loan you a unit. The documentation is complex, but it is a complex machine. To think we can sell this unit with a quick start guide is illusional, this is not a blue tooth speaker but a machine where a lot of things can go wrong if not operated properly. We offer training and install, as well as UL certification
Huber invented closed loop systems long before Julabo and Lauda. We have 1000’s of happy customers in North America, and are the #1 brand with Unistats . Performance and reliability are unmatched.
We would be happy to keep you as a customer and help you to make things right and to reach your goals.
It takes too to Tango…Bro
HUBER USA
Georg Kiefer
CEO


#42

Hi Cultivator,
thanks for your post.
This is not a crack lab glass, this is an expansion tank ( sight glass )
We have pressure gauges as well.
If you like to speak to us directly about HUBER’s technology I would appreciate your call
We can explain you our machine so you can fully understand the pro’s and con’s and then you can make a conscious decision what to buy. Julabo or Huber. I do not have a problem with competitors but if you compare us to Julabo please give us the chance to explain you our technology
Kind Regards
Georg


#43

I believe he was referring to “cracking glass” with pressure from the pump. I wish my chillers had pressure gauges!


#45

ok thanks Soxhlet.
Well many of our units come with an integrated VPC ( Variable Pressure Control ) as well , so does the 815 .
Bigger units have a fixed speed pump with higher pressures and flows…we offer VPC as accessories…
Most of the extraction devices in the market are stainless anyway so not even a concern.


#46

@huber_king_of_temp, our chillers are predominantly on stainless items. I see lots of reactors connected to chillers for smallish etoh extraction setups.
Edit: when you mention someone you can use the @ in front of the persons name so it notifys them.


#47

thanks Bro :slight_smile:


#48

Any chance you guys are building a chiller that uses the actual refrigerant as the heat transfer fluid? Bhogart has their icetek system that works in a similar way, except it’s air cooled. If that sucker was water cooled it would be a game changer.


#49

currently we have just some lab type direct refrigerant chillers.
Most of our customers using ethanol…in the system


#50

My chiller is specifically for crack


#51

Lol! :rofl:


#52

Are there any curent production models you have where the heat transfer fluid is the refrigerant?
It just seems counter productive to chill a fluid and pump it, when the refrigeration system is basically doing the same thing.


#53

It sounds counterproductive, but it is technically a much better solution to keep the compressor and refrigerant separate and then have a primary loop with a HTF. You have a much better control of temperature and a more stable machine, plus most process systems are designed to heat and cool, for that reason a HTF is more versatile. Our Unistat process units can all heat and cool , and we can ramp temp profiles in a much better way.


#54

IMO, units like the 815’s have features that we do not need but are expensive, like precision temperature control, fancy touchscreens/controls, compact packaging, ability to heat as well as cool etc. I have even seen Bizzy mention this in his feed. I believe what we really need is a direct refrigeration skid that could probably be built by any decent refrigeration tech for much cheaper than a standard lab chiller of equal capacity.

If anyone out there knows a refrigeration guy, let me know! Greenbuggy, do you still have that repair guy’s number? Maybe he wants to start his own hustle… One thing I love about message boards, is our collective ability to crowd source to try and go around big companies.

I believe I read in Bizzy’s feed a few weeks ago that he’s trying to get a direct refrigeration skid designed and built for the industry. He said he wants to work with Huber to build it.

To help visualize how a direct refrigeration setup might work, look up “vapor-compression cycle” on wikipedia and envision your jacketed vessel as the evaporator. I think a direct refrigeration skid would have a compressor, condenser, receiver/dryer and TXV (thermal expansion valve) mounted on a steel skid which would be hooked up to the process. In a lab chiller, you have this same cycle and components, except the evaporator part is submerged in the chilling fluid, which is then circulated out to the process. You can immediately see how this method, which is termed indirect refrigeration, is less efficient.


#56

Can we use R600 as the refrigerant?


#57

I would love to speak to someone. Im in Norcal, you have a rep out here ?


#58

our rep / service tech is Daniel Baird he is in the Bay area, call him on 919 601 4362
or if you want to call our office you can speak to Michael , the Tech director who visited greenbuggy
919 674 4266


#59

Hi 's name is Michael Nock ( tel 919 674 4266 )
I don’t think he wants to start his own hustle
He is quite happy to work for HUBER USA
But you can talk to some pro’s about refrigeration and chillers
Kind Regards
Georg
HUBER USA


#60

@greenbuggy
@cultivator
@SoStupendous
@cyclopath
@Tech1145
Hi 2 all, I starting to like this community as well and I hope we all can benefit from sharing useful information.
Michael Nock had a follow up phone call today with greenbuggy and it seems we are making some progress soon. I think there is a missconception about the sales force of HUBER USA and also who was involved in making the first sale to greenbuggy. We have not been involved in any sales calls or calculations for Greenbuggy. This was entirely made between Bizzy Bee one of our dealers to Greenbuggy. Bizzy Bee is usually quite solid when it comes to cooling power etc. However I do not want to point fingers again as we where not involved. On the other hand I do not want to leave the impression that HUBER’s sales force made a mistake and our poor service tech has to clean up.
If you like to have expert opinions and contacts to our sales reps, which most of them are service techs for the exact same reason …I let the techs sell and service , they know best and they stand behind their sale as they have to service them later.
None of our competitors has local service techs…but we have 5 across the country.
Here is the link if you like to get in touch.

http://www.huber-usa.com/us/contact_teams.aspx?team=sales
Kind Regards
Georg
CEO and Janitor :slight_smile:


#61

That is what I was getting at.


#62

I’m aware that these machines are too small for our needs. Yes, I want to get to 100 GPH @ -40C, but these units are undersized for cooling down 35 gallon reactors to -40C in 6+ hours with a starting temp below -10C. Boris with Bizzy doesn’t hold the blame here from my vantage point, as at least 2 and maybe 3 of my business associates met with your sales guy William (whose card I showed to Michael when he was on site) who said these would be suitable for our reactors - the size of which had been chosen in advance of which chiller and what capacity those chillers needed to be. When I inquired, I was told by technical people that these 815’s should be sized to no larger than 80-100L reactors.

You are correct that Bizzy sold us the machines, having gotten the thumbs up from your own salespeople on what models we intended to buy we shopped around and from what I am to understand, Bizzy offered the best price. I was not privy to these meetings as I was busy optimizing our solvent recovery needs and not concerned with the extraction side (my expansion of responsibilities didn’t happen until later). Nonetheless, these are my problem now and the scope of my complaints is NOT AT ALL exclusive to the problem of having undersized chillers. I want you to understand that some of these problems are going to transcend any increase in chiller size, and make you aware of these problems so that we can work towards a solution. “improper operation” is not the cause of these problems.

Your documentation - and so we’re clear, I’m attaching a picture of the manual I’m referring to - needs some improvement. “It’s a complex machine” is a statement I would agree with regarding the Unistats, but its not a defense for bad documentation. Your own support people agreed with me on this contention. I said that a quick start guide would be helpful, but the lack of a quick start guide would be a non-issue if the documentation wasn’t so fractured and incomplete.

To demonstrate - I have a couple of complaints about being unable to use the datalogging feature on my Unistats - this manual has no information on what method I should be using for datalogging, aside from where the USB port is that I can insert the thumbdrive. Meanwhile, the sales catalog that includes the Unistats boasts loudly about datalogging features - and being able to use equipment to get our shop to be more data driven has a lot of appeal to me.

After scouring the manual, I found that neither does the website, or the PDF version of what appears to be nearly the same manual for the Pilot One Unistat models (https://www.huber-online.com/download/manuals/BAL%20Unistat%20Standard%20EN.pdf) I find on the Huber website. The spylight software can do datalogging, but only by tying up a laptop and USB cable, it will not read any data recorded to a Thumbdrive. In fact, when Michael was on site he demonstrated 3 different ways to do datalogging, but had no solution for why the SpyControl software refuses to read the files the Unistat created or why the SpyControl patch you offer on your website won’t install correctly. The workaround he showed us will work (to use Spylight and a cable interface) - but it’s a bad look for equipment we spent so much money on - and I can presume that given an identical Pilot One interface, a significantly more expensive chiller like a 620W is going to suffer from the same problems. As I emphatically explained to Michael in a conversation earlier today - I just want this stuff to work. I can deal with slow cooling times because these are undersized, but slow cooling times in addition to technical problems exponentially increases the frustration we’re experiencing.

The SpyControl software is not free beyond the 30 day demo from what I’m to understand, and I have a hard time understanding why anyone would spend money for it when the Demo can’t even install correctly or read recorded data like it’s supposed to. Understand - I don’t think you are personally at fault for this Georg - but it would probably be in your best interest to address these concerns because it would improve customer’s experiences and probably allow you to make more sales on software like SpyControl, and instill more customer confidence in your products.