You are a saint. Thank you!
1 Like
Has anyone done any experimenting with using the vacuum blender to make emulsions? Is it possible to get it down around the nano size without using a surfactant and is it stable or does it become unstable when mixing oxygen back in?
Pashley, R.M. 2003. Effect of degassing on the formation and stability of surfactant-free emulsions and fine teflon dispersions, Journal of Physical Chemistry B, vol. 107, pp. 1714 - 1720.
Abstract:
The results reported here demonstrate that the formation of surfactant-free, oil-in-water emulsions is significantly enhanced by the almost complete removal of dissolved gases. However, in an apparent contradiction, the reintroduction of dissolved gases does not destabilize already formed emulsions. Removal of dissolved gases enables the formation of much more turbid and stable hydrocarbon oil in water emulsions, which can be further studied without the effects of various additives, often needed as stabilizers. The observations reported here suggest that the dispersion of oil droplets in water is opposed by an attractive, hydrophobic force, which is dependent on the presence of dissolved gas.However, once formed, the stability of the emulsions appeared to be unaffected by any attractive hydrophobic force, in either gassed or degassed conditions. Degassing was also found to enhance the dispersion of fine Teflon particles in water
2 Likes
Before vac blend
After blend
Unfortunately still lots of oil left
6 Likes
There are examples of O/W emulsions that are formed without the use of any surfactants. I’ve observed it as a bi product of SC-CO2 extracted terpenes… the fraction comes out with a layer of terpenes as well as a layer of hydrosol. The hydrosol is very aromatic just like the terpenes, but oxidizes quite quickly. It also is very transparent and what we know is it only takes a small amount (ppm, sometimes ppb) of various aromatic and flavor compounds for the smell and taste receptors to detect.
It would appear that the size of volatile organic compounds makes it easier for these non-surfactant O/W emulsions to occur in comparison to the larger structure of a cannabinoid molecule.
1 Like
Very curious how the addition of lecithin and other cheap and readily available emulsifiers would aid in the suspension. Looks like I gotta buy a vacuum blender!
2 Likes
My solution was to just change various ratio’s of the liquid portions of my emulsion, with water being kept just high enough that the product could be homogenized when added to downstream products. So it was more of a water soluble emulsified tincture that would mix homogenously with water or any beverage of the consumers choice.
The base liquid product itself actually tasted slightly sweet to me, very little bitter taste present and I would actually just consume it straight from the dropper since I thought the taste was fairly pleasant.
So it’s definitely doable, to create something with a quicker on-set time that doesn’t separate in water based formulations. The base liquid formulation I created had a water activity level below 0.85, which took some time to develop properly but I didn’t need any special bitter blockers or anything like that.
4 Likes
Has anyone tried this with his vacuum method and distillate to create water soluble tincture?
1 Like
Yes, the droplet size of the encapsulates are much too big in terms of stability. Although this is considered an emulsion, the opaque milkiness is an indicator of product inferiority. You will need a sonicating probe or high pressure homogenizer in order to make something stable. But if you are satisfied with the process and have the product labeled “shake well before use”, that works too.
1 Like
Aha! So this is where the vacuum blending stuff originated, @cyclopath ? Seems like good a place as any for me to put the brain splooge your messages with @Akoyeh induced me to e…lucidate! 
For those here, I was sent this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJeWklggSpY
And I replied with this:
I’ve done this naturally by preheating everything, sealing it, and allowing the vacuum to form… I used one of those mason jar adapters for the blender.
To me, it stands to reason this works by the same principle as heating and mixing at the same time, however… This gets the water near or at its boiling point, but by pressure instead of heat. As you all know, steam has far different properties than the liquid from which it arises; namely, rapid and voluminous expansion of volume, dramatically lowering density, improving its permeability and permittivity (thereby strengthening its polarity, which even makes the plasma state possible, among other things like increasing its attraction to itself—it wants to condense like 2 magnets held just apart by an external energy—and its ability to induce dipoles and dipole moments in other molecules, which is possibly the most underestimated of the 4 Van der Waals forces…I agree that the lack of gases around the oil droplets (and the water molecules) will improve the oil|water interface… I’m just trying to explain it to myself. Air is insulating, so the electrical interactions are improved by its absence.
3 Likes
By the way, hello everyone! I’m back and a free agent, once again! 
10 Likes
When it comes to colloidal chemistry, heat works against you when trying to encapsulate the cannabinoids. The reason being that increased entropy decreases the suspension stabilization since the oil isn’t actually dissolving into the water which i’m sure you are aware of!
1 Like
Correct! It has to cool to create the vacuum, and also to stabilize the particles.
1 Like
Has anyone used vegetable glycerin before? I used to make a water soluble tincture with it about 10 years ago. It was all done in my kitchen with no testing on the final product but it definitely was strong. Cured, decarbed flower in a glycerin soak.
1 Like
Cannabinoid solubility sucks with VG, PG is much better. But I’ve heard of lots of people doing something similar to you - soaking the whole plant in VG for a full spectrum extraction - and having good results. I wonder if the natural fats and phospholipids present in cannabis make cannabinoids more soluble in VG.
3 Likes
You got it, @oscar ! When dissolving an extract, it is best to use PEG (around 400 m.w.) and/or PG. However, an extraction of the plant can work with VG for the reasons you stated. The only drawback, I believe, is that it takes a really long time and a lot of glycerol to get decent yield!
2 Likes