variable frequency drives (I cannae get the power Captain!)

looking for an assist on sizing a VFD.

Ive got a fuge that came in the door with a 5HP 3-phase 200V baldor motor and a 5-HP 3-phase Schneider electric VFD ATV12HU40M3 - variable speed drive ATV12 - 4kW - 5hp - 200..240V - 3ph - with heat sink | Schneider Electric USA

I’m reasonably sure we can get 2HP out of the drive on single phase, and that a 10HP drive would be a better match to the motor specs if we’re trying to run on only one leg.

what I don’t know, is whether a 10HP 480V drive can be run 200V without pissing it off/derating it.

any suggestions for getting this fuge swinging at full speed on single phase would be appreciated.

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usually when sizing a single phase input on a three-phase drive is to use a vfd two times the full load amps of the motor.

ie. if your motor is a 5 hp with a full load of 14 amps then you would need a vfd with an amp rating of 28 amps which ends up being around 10 hp

EDIT: adding this link
https://www.flowcontrolnetwork.com/pumps-motors-drives/article/15563391/how-do-you-size-a-vfd

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not quite being sure how the magic is performed, I’m still unclear on feeding a VFD with a voltage below spec. seems like it should be kosher, but I’m a biologist, and electrickery is technically outside of my training :wink:

Edit: the link @thesk8nmidget posted clearly states that feeding a VFD the wrong voltage is not kosher. glad I asked. makes sourcing a replacement a hair more difficult.

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Most VFD’s have a tolerance for input voltage outside of which they’ll error out and refuse to light up the outputs.

You can certainly use a suitably sized buck-boost transformer to get a 208-240V supply up to the 460-480V range so it won’t pitch a fit.

As far as running on single phase, depends entirely on the VFD. Some VFD’s require a 50% derate (so 10 HP VFD to drive a 5 HP motor on single phase), some are built to run on 1 or 3 phase, some are built to run on single phase only. Hell, on small motors you can even get 110V input drives that give 230V 3 ph outputs.

I wouldn’t call myself an expert on VFD’s but I’ve installed and commissioned a whole lot of them, including several on things like my lathe, mill and cold saw that are set up to run on single phase inputs because my former shop didn’t have 3 phase power piped in.

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https://www.yaskawa.com/products/drives/industrial-ac-drives call them and they’ll tell you what you need. Used their controllers extensively and love them.

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soooo…

I was planning on replacing the OEM drive, but the owner of the fuge just asked “in front of, or replacing the OEM drive”.

&$#^@&()!@$_()!!

seems like just dropping it in front of the OEM control box would be the easier solution. set it to 60hz and forget it exists.

except when you want to turn things up to 11, or 110 for destructive testing…(spin both dials…)

or am I missing something here?!?

Yes. VFD’s are good for controlling motors, not great for powering control circuitry or other VFD’s without a lot of extra power conditioning between the two. They also really don’t like having their outputs disconnected while running.

For doing that you might look at something like a Phase Perfect, which is sadly going to cost a lot more than a large VFD will.

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Thank you.

Kinda seemed too good to be true…

Two dials that went to 11 in series sure did look like fun though :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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10hp Siemens only

You need to drop freq and maintain volts and amps. You can’t use a basic drop out vfd. You need a unit that control only dropping out freq. Or else motor will draw too much heat and burn out.

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Not only that; if its spinning at a lower RPM than what its speced out to be; the cooling fan wont be spinning at spec and wont extract as much heat as it should, it ends up being a vicious cycle that ends up reducing the service life tremendously

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How many amps is the motor?

Motor running slower than OEM intended is not an issue here :shushing_face:

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13A at 230V

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you need at least double what the motor is rated for, if you had 18 amps you would require 36 amps power, your drive data sheet says 23.8 amps if Im not mistaken. I wouldn’t attempt to run single phase, just generate a third phase or get it wired in from the pole, then step up or down with a buck boost transformer to meet the motors requirements. Do you need an explosion proof cabinet for the drive?

edit : 13 amps requires 26 amps from the drive.

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seems like a decent approach.
rotary vs static? (asking the all knowing one now…)

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you will want a rotery one, if you want the fuge to run at full hp.

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noticed this up thread.

the $2700 price tag did not stack well against a VFD

on the other hand, something like https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09520859 looks viable…

Thank you again sir!

looks like I still need more cutlery…

https://www.ebay.com/i/383032659486 lists as a 7.5HP rotary converter, but states that it will run a 3.75HP motor.

does that mean I need a 10HP phase converter to run a 5HP motor?

edit: that seems to be the case…

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The all knowing one claims that Scotty never uttered the phrase “I cannae get the power captain”.

Yet for some reason that phrase haunts me on almost every engagement…

I hate feeling powerless :shushing_face:

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