So the evidence I have is my time in the traditional market. I have been creating FICO for 40+ patients. I have six patients with terminal diagnoses that then started using my cannabis oil and their cancer diagnosis was reversed and people that were given a four month lifespan have now been around for 2+ years after using my cannabis oil product and also the help of a naturopathic doctor that I coincide my treatment with
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May I ask why I am not making FECO if Iām using the full extract of the plant and only decarbing it? The only difference is using a solvent that takes less temperature to remove the solvent preserving lighter terpenes. I studied cannabis extraction at SLU that actually helped discover and reveal the true working of the endo cannabinoids system?
Are you selling it straight? Or adding diluent?
How are you decarbing?
you might find Decarb under pressure to retain terps? a useful trick
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Feco made with ethanol extracts specific constituents, based on temp/time/input material. There is a bunch of stuff NOT extracted, and stuff which IS varies based on how/what was extracted. How can THIS be Feco?
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polar vs non-polar solvents. You extract a DIFFERENT (but overlapping) set of constituents when you extract with butane. If we assume that the āmagicā in FECO is in the non-cannabinoid fraction, what makes you think it comes for the ride in your non-polar solvent?
do you agree that extracting your proposed FECO with cold or even rm temp ethanol would leave residue behind?
then you agree that their extraction profile is different.
so which one is Full Extraction Cannabis Oil?
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it is the nature of polar protic solvent vs hydrocarbon extraction .
By definition of FECO the ācompleteā profile does not seem doable with hydrocarbon alone, even at a warmer temp like you are considering.
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Cheep syringe of decarbed goo for edibles/?!? sounds like a decent target.
Will the included fats enhance bioavailability? Maybe?
Should they be included? Meh.
Would distillate or decarbed THCa isolate taste better? Quite possibly, but thereās production costs there.
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decarbing in a diamond miner under pressure, we currently use this method for our live resin pens. great for retaining lighter terps
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I plan to use dablicators for correct dosing
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This is what I was considering, alot of the āFECOā or āRSOā products in our market are using Butane/Propane and I was not the biggest fan of it
Can you explain why?
Because:
Seems to suggest you think itās a fine idea.
I would hope your
would have gone into the differences in extraction profiles obtained using ethanol (polar, protic) vs hydrocarbon (nonpolar).
Were I grading this, youād get dinged for ātakes less temperatureā tooā¦(care to rephrase?)
Why do you want to CALL your product FECO?
Are you aiming for āmedicinalā that youāre not allowed to claim (so letās use the name?!?).
Are you aiming for a cheap/accessible syringe that folks can use recreationally.
Conflating the two and making BHO badly, doesnāt seem like the right approachā¦but itās your market/product, Iām only making suggestions.
Eg TASTE your live resin. Before & after decarbā¦compare it to a qwet and a traditional long rm temp RSO. I believe the decarbed qwet will taste better (which is why Iām repeating the advice)
How many grams do you need to make to launch a product? Ethanol extraction on a budget really IS a thing.
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Iām confused on calling it FECO as well. Iāve never seen āFECOā without all the waxes, chlorophyll, and other byproducts. Why would it be called a āfull extract cannabis oilā if youāre wanting to use selective solubility to extract only certain components?
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You are choosing between nonpolar aprotic solvent, butane AND polar protic solvent , Ethanol. The only thing that remains the same in both systems is the cannabinoic acids, the rest of your āfull spectrumā is entirely different. You sort of understand when you say, you want to minimize your chlorophyll, but changing to non polar aprotic will ruin all concept of your original formula medicine.
Marijuana is a āweedoā market place and this fits the bill perfectly.
Your note says you are processing 200K lbs, you mean 100 tons a week , with ethanol and dry ice.? Is that correct. If you have a cash cow like thatā¦donāt fuck with it. K generally means x1000?
Or do you mean 200 Kg ? I.e., 400 lbs a week? there are some reasons you might switch to Butane as well, i.e., high purity cannabinoic acids, but you donāt seem to understand āfull spectrumā. With the decarbing.?
There are full spectrum cannabinoic acid tinctures made from processing with base-water. What their composition is , is a matter of genetics.
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I have smelt many of batches of very appetizing/yummy cbd crude, but have not had the opportunity to put as much effort in preserving those flavor profiles. Due to normally going to distillate.
when farms have asked for a ārsoā type product I have suggested winterized & devolatized crude. I separately do a steam terp run(vacād) and then reintroduce those terps. (If worth it)
given the scenario I would try a small batch qwet and maybe consider adding some hte or live if there is access to good quality that might improve the profile/make the product a little unique(is this cheating?). If it has good reception then figure it out. Also make a batch of the homestyle feco and have your feco fans compare the 2.
(On a side note my reasoning for a thorough devol was that I prioritized nd residual solvent at the time, but I am also genuinely unsure if there is magic or evil in the cold trap)
@lukechurch420 said he got the ro tos for the low lows
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Thanks for the shout my guy! 10L brand new rotos for $2500!
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Curious. Are you suggesting the RSO market has a particular ātasteā they are looking for. Has anyone here ever tried chewing a HEMP strain bud? Or a HEMP strain bubble Hash? But I also thought original RSO was made from THCA dominant marijuana??? What are we really talking about? RSO flavor. It is as if someone is suggesting a RSO market should demand for a certain ātasteā but the concept is devoid of any definition. The point of original RSO was anticancer pharmacological effects?
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Just my own personal observations and farm responses from working with cbd hemp farms(may be where the disconnect is).
I would consider this a marketing topic and definitely not ārsoā specific:
more so to the subjectiveness of what people might consider ādesirableā in terms of the natural cannabis flavors & extracts.
Yes I have chewed on/ate nugs, little pieces of rosin, live resin, rso etc. I prefer extracts that tastes like the bud it came from and being able to taste that the bud was quality.
The statement is a reflection of wanting to make the best quality extract possible with the limitations at hand in certain scenarios.
I think my concept would be playing on the goal of having a more desirable flavor while also widening the cannabinoic profile, hopefully increasing the potential or probability of finding a benefit. However I would agree, I do not doubt that the bitter and less desirable flavors are also beneficial/strong as well in some cases.
On a side note, original RSO was also extracted with Naptha if Iām correct, which seems to be a aprotic nonpolar hydrocarbon mix?
I genuinely donāt mean to imply or suggest anything in an off-putting way, and I am not offended by any criticism, I highly value & respect everyoneās insight here.
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Just trying to lay out a āplaying fieldā. Back around 2018 I chewed a fresh hemp bud, hoping that my taste might distinguish quality. Thinking that CBDA may give rise to that faint.. hot pepper-like taste was it. . However, after purifying CBDA, and testing it straight upā¦I realized my apparent āmethodā had nothing to do with the CBDA.
Your note about RSO and original formula being a Naphtha extractā¦is interesting . Serious residual neurotoxins in that brew.
My comment was based only on curiousity. Your input is interesting. Tasty RSO may turnout to be the latest fad? Sell it!
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200k grams.. sorry
First offā¦ thank you guys so much for the responses. I really appreciate the back and forth on the medicinal viability when it comes to SOPs for medical patients.
Lets get into it. I started making my FECO in the traditional marker with the QWET SOP, a few patients complained about the taste and I was only able to remove the alcohol by simmering the product over a induction burner at 220 as I did not have my ETOH pro at the time. Next I got the ETOH pro and removed residual ethanol up to 90-95% that way and did a slow decarb at 165 to remove excess ethanol and preserve lighter terpenes that can benefit the patient, but some patients didnāt like the taste and some of my older patients who were on restricted diets were reporting the extract bothered their stomach. So i looked into what could be doing this and Chlorophyl and Waxes came up, I saw we could supplement this part of the plant through algae and other extracts if the formula needed for what they anted to treat needed it.
At this time I was working with a naturopathic doctor and her recommendation was to remove the waxes, chlorophyl and undesirables and we can add them back in other ways if needed. just focus on the cannabinoids and THC:CBD ratio.
I then switched to using Dry Ice to chill my Ethanol and Material to do longer soaks and remove the material she felt could be causing minor issues with patients allergies to certain plant material and this gave me a result that all patients were now reporting tasted great, was easy on their stomach and we were seeing great results after visiting their primary doctors.
Fast forward 2 years later and I am running a lab. Now i have access to butane extraction which to me seems the better option for full spectrum extraction. The theory in my mind is because I am exposing the terpenes to lower temps for less time than ethanol to get the extract to 0% solvent, unlike ethanol, I am preserving the lighter terpenes in the extract and degrading the over over medicine less than what I would be using ethanol. I have recently discussed with another extractor who has had great success with his patients battling terminal diseases with butane extracted FECO. I am calling the product FECO based on cold extraction vs warm extraction which is allowed in RSO. I personally call a clear, dabbable extract that is fully decarbed FECO where as something that is green and contains all parts of the plant RSO.
The main part of discussion I had with said extractor is the addition of CBD, CGB and CBD to get a full spectrum extract. I have personally always started patients with minimal 1:1 FECO so as to slow the psychoactive effects and allow them to continue throughout their normal lives. preferably I like to start new patients on 2:1 or 4:1 so they do not have a bad experience the first time they start the medicine.
I am by no means looking for a marketing scheme calling something FECO by using butane, I am just used to calling a cold extracted cannabis oil FECO and warm extracted RSO. My other understanding is that with FECO extracted with ethanol you need to leave some solvent in there to not remove all the terpenes and over process. Because patients going through CHEMO can have weakened livers, I want to provide them with an extract that is fully free of solvent, which is easier to achieve with butane rather than ethanol.
I would love to hear anyoneās input as although I am a teacher and a leader, I am also always a humble student. let me know what you think about this outlook
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yes, naptha was originally in Rick Simpsons documentation of how to make the oil due to the lower boiling point, maybe. from what i see is can boil between 86-392f and should not be consumed by humans