Good point! Didn’t even think about that
I was looking for more information on the Googles and I found this thread:
The interesting part:
So Im going to let you in on a secret, on how to make high potency water tinctures, in this case soda pop. First, make some hash oil. We wont go into the how here, but it needs to be BHO, CO2, or steam distilled. Now, let us say we want to make one soda: Take one oral dose of your oil (differs for everyone, but I find 30-50mg to be great, but 100-200 mg is more painkilling), and dissolve it in an equal measure of d-limonene. limonene is a great solvent, and a 50/50 mix of hard wax oil and limonene is free flowing and thin, and is a small enough amount to ingest. limonene is GRAS, a natural component of marijuana and oranges, and tastes like oranges, so dont have any reservations about drinking it, its great. Now, take your orange smelling tablespoon or so of oil/limonene mix, throw it in a glass, add an equal amount of ethanol ( ~1tbsp - makes it no more alcoholic than sprite is, all citrus flavored sodas have ethanol in them to make the orange flavor oils dissolve in water) shot of simple syrup (sugar water), then fill with chilled club soda. You now have a glass of clear, dyeless and preservative free, 100% natural, medicated orange soda.
This process can be scaled up of course, and you can use up to 5 grams of wax in a glass before you have to use enough limonene that it tastes bad to dissolve it. Limonene is widely available online, check Ama and Ebs, but be sure to get food grade. Shouldnt cost more than $10/quart, even in non bulk amounts.
Dont like orange soda? you can make unflavored extract by complexing the wax in cyclodextrins - get some beta-hydroxylpropylcyclodextrin. Sounds complicated, but is a cheap sugar, about $5 a gram in small amounts. While your oil is still being extracted, after 90% of the solvent (butane or co2) has evaped off, add twice the volume in the evaporate dish of cyclodextrin, then cure/purge as you normally would,just do it for twice as long as normal. The cyclodextrin has a lipophillic interior and hydrophillic interior, and will encapsulate the oil and render it dissolveable in water. This has the added effect of making your oil more bioavailable and more ready to cross the BBB. Mix twice the amount of this treated oil as you would with untreated into your glass of club soda/ sugar/ flavor (if you choose to add flavor)
Wondering what people think of this. Also, I am not sure if I can legally add some ethanol to edibles, but it is a small amount and I do extract with it.
I am still gonna sift through the HLB calculations, since that looks pretty straight forward too.
Great info and yes we use ethanol to extract currently
Under the new CA regulations all products including edibles must pass the residual solvent testing requirement. Ethanol is listed at 5000 ppm so a low level could cause loss of an entire production batch. I would be hesitant to use ethanol in any formulations for that reason.
The HLB system is very simple and more effective at creating stable emulsifications. You can also avoid the unwanted flavors of limonene/ethanol by using more proper surfactants.
Blending lecithin and oil in water, then heating and sonicating will yield a liposomal mixture. There is an easy step by step online if you google ‘liposomal vitamin C’.
Its not the most precise production method, but is a good way to learn the process.
sweet i’m going to try all these different methods and see what I like
my initial thoughts are about stability: is the water/ethanol/limonene/cannabinoid complex stable, or will the 'noids just crash out eventually? seems like something you would want to mix up fresh
I think the shelf life of CBD isn’t that long unfortunately
This is exactly what I was looking for and didn’t even know it. Are there any common ratios that I should be using between lecithin, oil, and water
ive heard sunflower lecithin is better for emulsions of oil in mostly water. i cant confirm but might be worth checking out
I followed the liposomal vitamin C formula, more or less, which ended up being 120g THC distillate, about 1-1.5 cups of water, and 90g lecithin. The vitamin C method suggests 2 Tbsp of vodka, which I did not use but would have made the process better.
I stirred with a stir bar which was a nightmare…shear blender is advised. The smaller you make the lecithin particles the better suspension you will have. Even with my half assed SOP I ended up yielding a suspension which tested at 8mg/ml (liquid phase, there were some clumps that did not get tested). A success in terms of the project parameters
If you degum your crude often enough it is completely possible to generate a hemp lecithin feed stock…a hemp veg glycerin feed stock as well.
Would love to discuss those points with anyone who is game.
@thedjreese are you looking to create something for commercial uses or for family members?
if it is for family health and wellness the synergistic effects of curica tummeric drops and distillate has been the most effective combination I’ve found for my family members. I’ve had success mixing the two without any additives, I believe the Curica has a glycol base. I’ve got members who use this daily and can swear by it, specially if they have an active lifestyle.
1gram distillate (90%+) + 1 bottle of curica should yield 32 servings at around 28mgs per serving
beautiful link, thank you very much
I now realized that my discussion about making oil water soluble is right here with more info.
this implies there is some residule solvent before mixing in the cyclodexterin, I thought the point was to infuse mct oil 1st and allow the cyclodexterin to emulsify. Anybody know?
What did you decide to use?
Nothing has been perfect
Maybe try gelatin or cellulose capsules? It’s easy to dissolve in coconut oil or something similar like MCT at a precise but concentrated dose and have accurate milligram amounts for capsules?
Thank you @shadownaught for dropping some knowledge on lecithin emulsions. I have always wondered about that.
I had heard of a method where you dissolve sugar into ethanol, and add distillate, homogenize, and then flash freeze/ distill off the solvent. If it is near saturation conditions, the thinking is that the distillate will become trapped in sugar crystals as they form. These trapped inclusion bodies are supposedly small enough that they form a tiny emulsion. Would probably work better with an emulsifier, but maybe this is a method to consider as well.