Where does glycerine fall at here? Sorry and what is HLB value? Thank you for your time.
When using q-naturale is a carrier oil needed? I cant get anywhere near a translucent emulsion once I add mct oil or olive oil to my mix of q-naturale, distillate and water. Once sonicated (using 600watt probe type sonicator) the mix turns into milk and is near impossible to filter through a .45nm filter and even worse through .22nm . This is for making nano emulsions to be added to lemonades/any beverage. Anyone have any recepies they want to share that will filter using q-naturale, (quillaja extract) that would be awesome. Im losing my mind over this. So far emusions made with only distillate, q-naturale and water are translucent and ive had good reviews from friends but im not sure if a carrier oil is needed to create the proper nano emulsion im looking for. I am almost at the point of investing in an already made precursor like Ugoo or cannasol technologies but i would rather not and keep going on the r and d ive already invested so much time and money into. Any help would be great. The pic is of 10ml 100mg distillate, q-naturale and water. Also the Q-naturale data sheet presented in this thread does not call for carrier oil but the science behind a proper nano emulsion says one is needed. Im confused.
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I don’t recommend any use of carrier oil… Just water, quillaja, and oil. I use a little bit of ethanol to make the oil dispersable.
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Thank you for your response. I understand on a nano scale the sonicator is producing micelles. Would the use of only quillaja create these and encapsulate the oil without a carrier oil? Would the onset time and absorbing into the body be the same rate without a carrier oil? Im still getting milk after sonication that will hardly filter through .45nm syringe filter while warm. Still nothing even close to translucent nano emulsion if carrier oil is in the mix. Any one else have any suggestions? Trying to make translucent nano emulsions with quillaja disti and oil/mct oil is harder than I expected. Pic is of nano emulsion of 2ml olive oil , 1ml quillaja , 27ml water. Its milk thats hard to filter 
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Do you have stability issues without a carrier oil? Mine always fell apart rapidly without carrier oil, even with high q nat concentration.
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I use a very small amount of xanthan gum to stabilize it.
But it sounds like you’re getting great results without using carrier oil, so why even try and use it? If you’re getting a stable, translucent emulsion you’ve already got what you want…
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But the questions I stated in my last post still stand about including a carrier oil. My problem is filtering said milky solution, I dont care much its milky (although the gold im after is translucent emulsions) just that I cant get it through a .22nm filter instead of .45nm. The .22nm filter gets clogged which concerns me about possible product loss when filtering. Even the .45nm gets clogged up after about 40ml of emulsion passed through it.
Also the question of mine still stands. Does Quillaja saponin and q-natural ability to form and stabilize colloidal structures like micelles confirm no carrier oil is needed to create such stabilized emulsions/micelles? My emulsion has no visual separation after month of on the shelf. I guess people will be getting more free drinks becuase I need to make sure the uptake into the body is good without a carrier oil (i need 100mg to feel like 100mg with no loss upon absorbsion into the human body) That recipe was just .6 disti, 17g quillaja and water then the concentrate/emulsion mixed with lemonade to produce 100mg/bottle. I forget who posted that recipe in this thread but thanks to that person. That was where I started with this months ago lol back to the beginning. Im still stuck on sonomechanics emulsion recipe that calls for a carrier oil. No pics but here is a screen shot of their recipe.
Are you sure you’re actually emulsifying in the pic of your translucent emulsion? As I stated earlier that looks like a solution of q-naturale and not an emulsion. You could have filtered the oil out. At least in my experience it was always milky but filtered through a 0.45 filter without issue; 0.22 always clogged.
According to Ingredion spec sheet you should be getting in the ~220 nm range after multiple HPH passes, which doesn’t look that clear. Sonomechanics has data to suggest they’re getting sub 200 nm, but that’s at pretty low oil loading. Also, every quillaja sample I’ve made or tried on the market is milky in appearance. Some surfactants just can’t produce super small particles, regardless of homogenization technique.
From sonomechanics:
Not saying it isn’t possible, it’s just not what I’ve personally experienced. I’d love to be wrong though.
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I missed this, but my answer is yes, Quillaja can stabilize THC micelles with no need for a carrier oil…
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The ISM ingredient list is intentionally misleading - I have reverse engineered their Nano STB down to a 96% match after much trial and error. I will say they do not use Quillaja Saponin or Olive Oil in their STB packages so don’t spend too much time trying to get these to work. I spent months trying to narrow it done and when I sat back and looked into other carrier oils I was finally able to get it to work.
A very simple tincture and perhaps the most simple
is to disolve it in 95% ethanol;
adjust to concentration to 5 mg/drop CBD
or 10 mg per drop for THC. Using a standard dropper/bottle,
place a drop in side of mouth or under tongue.
Keep it in mouth as long as possible.
A slightly more efficatious manner, is to place your drops
into a glass of water. A micelle (white) will instantaneously form.
Drink the glass of tincture/water .
As far as “tinctures” go…the rest is bullshit and/or regulatory nonsense.
You say your intended audience is “family and friends”.
a regular drop is about 50 microliters, which for most substances works out to around 50mg. so there’s no way you’re going to make a CBD solution that concentrated
That’s not a micelle, that’s just precipitate from water crashing out CBD.
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are you actually familiar with the intricacies of determining bioavailability? with a single Google search, i found that the bioavailability of CBD is all but utter shite. you’d be lucky to get anything beyond 20% from whatever high tech emulsion you whipped up
Glycerin is basically thick, sweet water. Not an emulsifier or a great solubilizer.
To those that wish a low dose soluble
90% water
5% glycerine
5% elderflower concentrate Ad this as last and your opaque water cbd solution will turn clear
60 mg in 200 ml
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I adjusted that value by a factor of ten…
your point is well taken.
Micelle yes…
have you ever worked with either THC or CBD in the micelle
form? Or the acids in micelle form? most interesting…
I’ve worked with all kinds of micelles! i like MLVs best.
care to elaborate?