If my math is correct the Athena core with either veg or bloom is .12$ per gallon. Jacks with pure cal would be .026$.
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It wouldn’t benefit you a a ton going to straight salts over Jack’s. Simple formulas are roughly 2 cents a gallon and “inclusive” formulas with silicate and a few other additives come out at roughly 3 cents. That’s running at roughly 2.2ec.
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That was just my base nutrients with no additives like silica, I’m no pro on getting technical with nutrients but your right on the cal prime and cal plus being similar after comparing the two.
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This is fucking ridiculous lol. Thanks for the tip on the Plant Products CalNit, I’ll check that out
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Nutes Nutrients …
50lb bags of salts mixing tanks acording plant needs. Would be the chrapest and the most effective. 99% of hydro growers over fertilize . Growers adding krelp to salts now thats funny. Anyone putting organics in salts is riding the short bus. I have read through this post and this is what I have gathered. There are a number of you looking for solid suppirted insight and advice as you desire to become better at your craft. Then there are a number of you that think they know what their talking about. Pluging roduct names like your getting free nutrients to do it. I never mentioned a product name . But some short busser thought he would voice in about green tax. Our 4 part product line ships with only the nutrient mush inside The container. The End user Adds their own hot water we advise using distilled water and heating it to add to the containers and mixing the nutrients up themselves this way our customers are not paying to ship water weight that isn’t necessary Whereby saving our customers considerably yesterday on the shipping weights granted there may only be a couple ounces of mineral mush. Inside every one of the gallons Or the 5S the 15S or the 55S. But we’re not trying to charge our customers for water weight. Which is what liquid nutrients are full of they’re mostly water diluted deluded to erasure that’s manageable is energible for consumers to use. The most important thing about nutrients is their ratios how much of each mineral salt is present in that blend. Is the quality of a plant nutrient is based around way to many other factors. So for the green tax individual you couldn’t be more off base and I don’t know what store you had but you were not selling our nutrients and nor have you tried them. Because if you had you would know that we’re only charging the customer for the nutrient content in the jug and that runs about 30% of what normal the dreams do we’re not trying to charge you for the water. Now to bring this forward to the rest of the product named droppers uppers and the individuals that had hadstores that no longer have stores what happened to the business you didn’t sell the right nutrients you got out of it because it was too successful successful help me out here what. I do a lot of consulting and one of the 1st things that I tell my clients is there’s 2 things that you will not do if I’m to Work with you. Number one You will not go into the Internet and read the abundance of terroread the abundance of terrible information that’s on there and then ask me questions about what you read. A number 2 If you will not go into groceries and ask the individuals that work inside questions Regarding anything that we’re doing and In the event I need you to run to the local garden store to pick something up you were not to ask them questions about what I’ve sent you for other than where is it and you most certainly are not to begin listening to them go on about the products. Because here’s the truth about that if the individuals working in the grocery store really knew what they were talking about and knew how to grow and were that good they would be doing it not working for minimum wage in a grocery is the grocery let your conscience be your guide you’re guide there think about it. I began mixing plant nutrients in 1992 bill I hope design an engineer the hydroponic nutrients for a company that I’m not going to name drop and we were one of only a couple nutrient manufacturers manufacturers that were geared towards the cultivation of cannabis in 1992 I caninety 2 I can tell you that General Hydroponics was 1 of the only other manufacturers of hydroponic nutrients back then and we watched other companies come online such as botanic air and Fox farm Green fires Earth juice Dinah grows grow Bloom Protect And calcium magnesium supplements… I’ve been doing this and making fertilizers since before any of these companies ever thought about doing it. I was always developing and designing nutrients based specifically towards the cultivation of cannabis there are not a lot of other companies that can say that. Because up until recently nobody was willing to stand up and make a claim that the products that they were manufacturing were geared towards the production of cannabis because they were all like scared little girls. Scared that the big bad wolf was going to come and get them because they were manufacturing products that were geared towards cannabis Production. But when approaching these companies in 1998 and 2002 1003 and 7 and trying to list them as sponsors sponsors for cannabis events not a one of them was a taker. The truth about nutrients As they apply to the cannabis industry is that everybody buys the cheapest components that they can throwing them together in whatever ratio sounds good That doesn’t mathematically appear that it’s going to affect plants in a negative way provided it’s mixed at the proper ratio. Which I will add pushes the limits of fertilizing plants following the manufacturers suggested Delusion ratios. And then selling them for as much as they can. It’s no secret there’s big money in plant nutrients in the cannabis industry because because cannabis gardeners are not always The most analytical individuals individuals when it comes to cultivation. 7 out of every 10 cultivators I know we’ll buy a product from the grocery because they like the art on the package. No I’m not gonna write a novel this time and be long winded I’ll keep this simple is simple into the point. Unless you have run controlled studies Meaning you have a number of duplicate environments using the same code of R and a number of different companies nutrients and and all of those cultivars are subjected to the same atmospheric condition same environmental conditions every single one of them duplicated which we used grow tents for this And all of your cultivars in their individual environments are given the different company’s nutrients measured at the ratios that are recommended by the manufacturer and the plants are cycled Do analyze and record the data along the way and at the end Of your study. I really don’t think that it is the most logical is globical approach to to be throwing product names out there that have worked for you maybe once or twice and maybe not somebody else but if you’re going to throw name brands like that share a little more with us tell us about your environment tell us about your temperatures tell us about your cultivar tell us what your relative humidity is in the morning and at night what the temperatures are throughout the day day morning night what you’re feeding when you’re feeding when you’re feeding how much you’re feeding What your light cycles are and how you’re analyzing the plant tissues to arrive at your Name bran choice. Because the truth of the matter is and I say this with conviction If you can’t tell me what your percentage of anions and ion’s are What your transportation volume is When occasion exchange Is peking what your mineral content is after known ratios have mixed and yoyr nutrient is then tested to determin the ercentages of uprake That you must then log with information such information such as your relative humidity your temperature your light intensity your CO 2 level and the temperature of your root zone the temperature of your plant surface the temperature at your plant top is top the temperature of your nutrient solution as it comes out of the feeder tube And as it comes out of the bottom of your pot or tube To this we’re going to need to collect our oxygen level in the nutrient solution and our oxygen level in our medium. What the plant update was. At what point your nutrients become antagonist to the plant And begin to create deficiencies and/or toxicities which I would like to add that you never fix by adding more of a given nutrient if the plant looks deficient in deficient in a specific element my advice don’t ever attempt to give it more of the same nutrient because what’s happening is the nutrient is becoming an antagonist and the deficiency is being forced by something being out of line. So with what I’ve shared here getting back to the quality of a nutrient we know there’s a number of other contributing factors to that in fact the contributing factors play a greater role than the nutrient itself in all honesty. So to once again attempt to answer the question what is the best nutrient on the market honestly there isn’t one because the best nutrient for cultivating cannabis would be 1 that’s tailored towards your particular growing particular growing environment taking taking in to account all of the living factors.In terms of cost of goods buying your own 50 pound bags of mineral salts And mixing your own would be the smartest thing to do you can purchase all of the mineral salts that you need and your trace for a few $100 literally have hundreds and hundreds to thousands of gallons of nutrients that you can mix plus you can begin to target specific regiments have growth at different times by increasing one element and decreasing 1 element and decreasing another and I’m going to attach a link here that’s going to take you to a plethora of information. That is provided for individuals that desire to become Surely good at what they do. You will discover A long winded Article. The reason those of us that know cram as much information that’s relevant intoThe article as possible . Is So That the reader doesn’t have to go searching all over the place for what they’re looking for they can find plenty of relative and applicable information within the article. This one here should without a doubt the information necessary to choose the best nutrients available for cultivating cannabis. Allow me to separate the men from the boys After 35 years of doing this at a scientific level and educating professors and deans of major universities about this plant Ivhave learned the more I know the more I dont. Unlike the group of grows r us kids that have mastered cannabis cultivation on this site And done so with products that you buy at the Hydra store, lol When I offer product information or is a confirmation or guidance to fellow growers the growers I don’t think I know what I’m talking about talking about I know what I’m talking about And I don’t need to drop product names to prove that point… But I can guarantee you if I’m telling you about something You can rest assured it’s true. Seacannabis cultivation leaves a very wide door open for people to talk shit and bullshit because there’s so many people that don’t know what the facts are or what the reality is regarding certain products cultivation harvest yield any of that stuff neither that stuff so all you have to do is be able to talk a better line of bullshit than the next guy that he doesn’t know anything about and you get to get away with saying whatever you want to for the most part. I’m incredibly effective it’s snuffing all these people out Because I know when they’re full of shit. You can go listen to entire panels of them speaking at cannabis events and not dropping any names But competitions held by certain publications that have capprizes. That are some of the biggest bullshitters And garbage product pushers there are out there. So for those that you that Really want to learn how to do this and how to be good at this and what it takes to do it To go and see the extent We go to to provide correct information and data for inquired minds. Now I’ve used talk to text for this article is this article so there could be typos in it and it’s too late or shall we say too early for me to prove read it so I’m just gonna let it fly and if it’s got a lot of typos in it it’s not because of of my grammar it’s because of a smartphone.I invite everyone to take a look at this it’s it’s a great body of literature that contains a lot of good information and I purchand I personally feel very strongly that it’s an excellent contribution To cannabis and cannabis nutrition But I could be bias. Now for those of you that go and read this if you want to begin talking about your plant nutrition in greater depth and how to go about mixing your own formulas and starting to tailor a nutrient that works for you and your environment you can get in touch with me me I’m on here send me private messages so we can chat. I normally charge $300 an hour for for this kind of information You’re getting it for free. Actually it goes beyond that because what’s contained in this article It is priceless. Yet because it involves information and data that was acquired Is through private funding and research that has not even been conducted yet on a collegiate level. So let’s ring the bell school’s now in session take a seat read up and learn your lesson. Haters are gonna hate and doubters are gonna doubt But scholars are gonna teach and that’s what it’s all about…
https://manicbotanix.com/cannabis-nutrient-tissue-analysis-and-crop-nutrition/
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G.low? Love that site read it alot. I know your prolly not glow but you write like him and you reference his work so, cool. Thanks for contributing @Drzoffer your a smart dude fs.
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I only recently learned that the state of oregon publishes the contents of all fertilizers as a condition of being registered with the state. How much trade secret is left, or does this information give everything away?
Here is gh floramicro as one example, if this link works:
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=32605
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A lot of trade secret is left. They basically publish what’s on the label plus a heavy metals analysis. Oregon is the strictest state for fertilizer labeling, but unlisted “non plant food ingredients” and guaranteed minimums are still the norm. For example I could make a 10-10-10 fertilizer label for a fertilizer that is 12-10-15 and has some unlabeled fulvic and get away with it.
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I got in that pure cal, by reading the info I have on the Athena core, 14-0-0. I might try substituting it with the pure cal.
Do you have any thoughts?
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DO NOT. Athena splits the micros between a and b. You would be missing micros if you did.
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That’s a good trick to keep you with them, I’ve been having great success with it the last month, I think some of the issues I had with jacks was my fault.
But i like how clean the Athena is with my netafim drippers, they are spotless. I think the hypochlorous acid helps as well.
I think the kelp, calcium , regalia and agt50 I’ve been foliar feeding the first 2 weeks has helped as well.
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This is the best nutrient deficiency publication I’ve ever seen.
applsci-09-04432-v2.pdf (3.9 MB)
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Well, this morning I just learned that even though pekacid is 100% compatible with cal nitrate and cal prime, it is 0% compatible with cal acetate. Now back to redo the stock tank. Lol
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I got some pure cal finally, do you think that using that and jacks 5-12-26 is worth my time to do a side by side with the Athena?
My plan was to do one table with athena and the other with jacks and pure cal, but I’ve had such good luck with the Athena I almost done dare try it. I know I have improved on some of the issues I’ve had in the past but I really enjoy how easy the Athena mixes and stays clean.
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In my opinion the Jack’s has an uphill battle, even using it with purecal/cal prime due to the 5 nitrate number on the Jack’s itself. It simply can’t deliver what I would consider an ideal Ca:N ratio. The main reason for my opinion is because I consider disease resistance to be almost as important as product quality.
Not sure exactly how pricing works out in your neck of the woods, but purecal plus something that’s 0-12ish-24ish would be a better comparison. Something like hgv, but that doesn’t have the green tax. The data you got on athena shows us that there is nothing remarkable about the nutrient ratios it contains, so you should give yourself a little more credit.
The biggest thing athena seems to have going for it is cleanliness and ability to dissolve quickly, that can be replicated using pekacid and/or citric acid or one of the newer generation polyphosphates. If you wanted to go straight salts you could clone the athena pretty easily. As far as easy to dissolve, the hardest thing to source will be soluble potassium sulfate, my last few pallets of Haifa have come as boulders, not powder. It dissolves, it’s just a waiting game. The cleanse can also be replaced with calcium hypochlorite. Under about 5.9ish ph just about any form of chlorine applied is going to exist as hocl. If you take the ph of the solution below 3ish the chlorine will exist as cl2(chlorine gas) at 7.50ph a lot of the chlorine will exist as ocl, 9ph plus it’s all ocl.
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I was actually just reading about doing a dyi hocl, using the exact method you described, it was the first time I’ve seen that and no idea that just adjusting the ph could change a chlorine product.
I’ll do some searching and see what I can find for 0-12-24 or close. I agree 100% on your theory of plant health. That’s what I’m trying to focus on the most, then the flowers will come with it.
I’ve had issues with PM in the past and I used to blame it on my environment but now I realize it was plant health that was the issue more so then the environment.
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The important thing to see there is that the environment directly influences transpiration, which directly influences absorption of mass flow nutrients. Then you can match your k to the level of mass flow. You’ll notice that when that pm pops up it’s almost always on a leaf below the canopy with poor air circulation and light…that leaf’s lower transpiration rate than the rest of the plant causes weakness and just about all pests are creatures of opportunity.
90% of my job is getting the best I can out of less than ideal environmental situations in purpose built grows. I find that amusing
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I seen this before but I never really looked into it, seems similar to Athena numbers!
, the 0-12-26 is 50$ a bag cheaper and the 14.5-0-0 is half the price.
Not sure of quality.
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I would just stick with Athena if your scale is what you post. Let them do the homework for you. That is what I do.
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I only have 72sqft of flower at my personal medical grow at home, but I’m in the build out of a 2150sq ft flower facility with a 900sq ft nursery.
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