Gold was wrong on that too?
dammit.
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Apologies if this comes off as rude, is that information absolutely confirmed?
I’ve been told by, from what I could tell were reliable sources, that there is a very palatable difference in the type of psychoactivity, as well as noticeable potentiation when eaten and dabbed.
Have you ever ingested it?
I imagine that uptake from the digestive system is faster. and probably more complete. assuming what I’ve been told of it’s water solubility it on point. then off to the liver. like always.
I’m guessing that could be compatible with “potentiation” & I personally put higher ingested doses in a different class, which may be compatible with “type of psychoactivity”.
guess you’re gonna have to try it and see 
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No, I have not. I have a sensitivity to THC that precludes me from bioassaying some things. I am saying this according to information I gathered from others who have tried it, papers on the subject, and my general knowledge of metabolic pathways.
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Do you have any papers on the synthesis of thc acetate? I also thought it could be important to note that I read thc acetate’s effects dont start until around 30 min after smoked/vaporized.
Yeah, I experienced late onset.
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That’s one thing a prodrug does. It is often not a drug until it becomes a metabolite. Depending on what metabolic rxn is necessary, and the individual’s body’s capacity to perform that rxn, the drug will have a later onset than it would without the extra moiety that must be cleaved off.
My archives are rather disorganized and I don’t keep copies of everything I read, but maybe @Future has one.
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Im trying to solve why multiple reports say that thc acetate is 2-3 times stronger than thc. You said that thc acetate is not great at getting to the BBB quickly but is it taken up by the bloodstream differently? That way once it metabolizes to thc its effects are stronger?
Everyone’s body is different, and so are their abilities to accurately weigh doses. I do not believe I said that THC-O-acetate cannot cross the BBB… I simply said that is one reason prodrugs are made. Iow, if THC did have an inability to cross the BBB (it crosses easily, this is just an example), then a moeity (part of a molecule) might be added to it so that it could cross and then be metabolized by brain tissue into the psychoactive drug, THC. Acetylation should not prevent crossing the BBB, but it does make the THC part non-psychoactive until tissues remove the acetate moiety… which is why the onset takes longer.
The acetate may make the THC more water soluble so it can penetrate non-fatty membranes and get to places in the body where it normally wouldn’t reach or would reach less. It is entirely possible that the acetate changes where in the brain the THC reaches, thereby changing its effects.
However, I believe most de-acetylation occurs in the gut and liver, so route of administration probably plays a large part in variations in the reports of psychoactivity.
Again, this will vary from person to person.
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Picamilon, a nootropic composed of nicotinoyl-GABA, is a prodrug of sorts that behaves the way I first mentioned. GABA, when eaten, cannot cross the BBB, even though it is a common neurotransmitter. Chemists added the B-vitamin, niacin, as a moeity onto the GABA molecule, which easily crosses the BBB. Once in the brain, the compound is metabolized (aka: breaks down) into niacin and GABA. In this way, the brain gets a dose of niacin and GABA. Picamilon is a very good example of why prodrugs are created.
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Psilisophical on instagram has done this acetate several times. Each time cleaner and cleaner. A way too know you have done it correctly is the gain of 25% in weight. Last time he managed too pull this off.
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I suggest following the instructions in Cannabis Alchemy exactly, word for word, including the final purge steps.
Acetic anhydride is available at this time with no hassle from eBay or Right Price Chemicals.
The main reason for the fume hood with nitrogen is the extreme toxicity of the acetic anhydride vapors.
Here’s Gray Wolf’s thread on the subject,
More about D Gold, the author of Cannabis Alchemy,
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Here’s an online version of Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold,
The final purge is performed differently than most everyone is used to, it doesn’t work with a sep funnel, and only requires a pipette and pump or the simple jug with dip tube rig described in the main presentation:
(Chapter 1) Step 6: Purification
Oil produced using this method is quite potent, but still contains substances which give the oil its taste, smell, and color. These are sometimes very pleasant to smoke, and they are sometimes left in the oil. Removing them, however, greatly increases the potency, but decreases the yield proportionally.
The oil from the extraction is dissolved in five times its weight of alcohol and poured into an equal volume of water in a large glass jug with a screw-on cap. All solvents used are cold or cool. A volume of petroleum ether equal to half the volume of the water used is added. The screw top is tightened and the jug is inverted. The jug is turned upright immediately, and a few seconds later, when the mixture has run down the sides of the jug, the screw cap is opened slowly to relieve the pressure. The inversion of the jug is repeated about twenty-five times, which releases the pressure each time, and then the jug is allowed to sit for about half an hour. The mixture of liquids will separate into three distinct layers. The bottom layer will contain water, alcohol, and the substances in the oil (tars and resins) that are not soluble in petroleum ether. The thin middle layer is an emulsion of waxes, ether, and air bubbles. The top layer is the purified oil dissolved in petroleum ether.
The jug is fitted with a two-holed rubber stopper, glass tubing, and rubber hose. Two pieces of glass tubing are fitted into the two-holed rubber stopper. (Injuries when cutting and fitting glass tubing are frequent—cut ends are always fire-polished and hands must be protected when any force is used in fitting the tubing.) One piece of tubing need only protrude from the stopper an inch on each side. The other tube is positioned so that when the stopper is tightly fitted to the jug, the tube extends into the mixture to a half-inch from the bottom of the ether/oil layer. The other end of the tube is attached to a length of rubber tubing to transfer the ether/oil solution to a collection jug. The end of the tubing must be lower than the end of the tube in the ether/oil solution in order to obtain a siphon action. A short piece of rubber tubing is fitted to the short glass tube, and air pressure is applied to start the siphon.
The glass tube is spaced a bit above the emulsion layer; any ether/oil solution not removed will be recovered later. The ether/oil solution in the collection jug is saved. Another volume of fresh petroleum ether is added to the extraction by inverting, separating, and collecting the ether solution, which is added to the first ether/oil solution. This process is repeated until the ether layer remains clear after inverting. This indicates that the ether-soluble oil is totally extracted from the alcohol-and-water layer.
The petroleum ether referenced is the low boing point ~35-60C cut containing mostly pentane with some hexane. Imo, it’s best to avoid the hexane altogether if possible, therefore I suggest using pentane.
(Chapter1, Step 3) 4. Petroleum ether (boiling point 30—60° C). Petroleum ether is a light solvent much more selective than any of the alcohols. Extracting with petroleum ether produces an oil that is twice as potent by weight as oil extracted with alcohol. The cannabis material may be extracted directly with ether but, due to petroleum ether’s highly explosive nature, the oil is first removed from the plant material with alcohol and then re- extracted with ether. This requires a much smaller amount of the dangerous solvent. Petroleum ether is usually available only through chemical supply companies.
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Yes. He and I have discussed the rxn at length. Glad to know he’s still at it, and doing well!
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By the way, the “petroleum ether” he refers to, which is not an ether in any way (sometimes called “naphtha”, but not the same as VM&P naphtha), is generally a mixture of pentane and hexane isomers. You can use pure n-pentane, mixed pentanes, n-hexane, or mixed hexanes instead. It really just calls for the same alkane-over-aqueous-alcohol partition @beaker and I recently discussed.
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Here’s the free online version of Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold I prefer (I just noticed it’s back up,)
You could also use heptane as the non-polar extraction solvent, it’s available ubiquitously and inexpensively as rubber cement thinner.
My reasoning for avoiding hexane, besides the strong gasoline like odor is the data presented in the FDA’s Q3C — Tables and List Guidance for Industry,
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Guidances/UCM073395.pdf
Pentane and heptane are Class 3 while hexane is Class 2 with a suggested concentration limit of 290 ppm.
“Solvents in Class 3 (Table 3) may be regarded as less toxic and of lower risk to human health. Class 3 includes no solvent known as a human health hazard at levels normally accepted in pharmaceuticals. However, there are no long-term toxicity or carcinogenicity studies for many of the solvents in Class 3. Available data indicate that they are less toxic in acute or short-term studies and negative in genotoxicity studies. It is considered that amounts of these residual solvents of 50 mg per day or less (corresponding to 5,000 ppm or 0.5 percent under Option 1) would be acceptable without justification. Higher amounts may also be acceptable provided they are realistic in relation to manufacturing capability and good manufacturing practice (GMP).”
“Solvents in Class 2 (Table 2) should be limited in pharmaceutical products because of their inherent toxicity. PDEs are given to the nearest 0.1 mg/day, and concentrations are given to the nearest 10 ppm. The stated values do not reflect the necessary analytical precision of determination. Precision should be determined as part of the validation of the method.”
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He’s my son so he used my lab often. Quite the youngin’. Lol is well on his way in this industry! Keep it up Poopsie!
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Yes that is his Instagram handle
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