I got that T41 for the lo low
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Thank you
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Iām pretty sure that 5.5 is a typical pH reading for 190 proof ethanol:water azeotrope solution.
Only ethanolā¦ except for teeny tiny amounts of water that might dissolve in the hydrocarbons, the pH of which is essentially not measurable. Small amounts of water trapped in incompletely calcined or uncalcined clays can have pH, but only in the tiny interlamellar spaces and pores where it is trapped/adsorbedā¦ which is again, not measurableā¦ unless you flood the clay with water and measure the pH of the bulk water.
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So are you saying that, the clays will have an insignificant effect on the pH of the ethanol/THCa/terpene solution that passes through it?
I am not saying that at all. Ethanol has water, therefore it has a measurable pH which can be affected by the water-borne ions in the clay.
Even if you run a hydrocarbon solution of THCa through clay, if the clay-water is alkaline, if can neutralize some of the THCaā¦ you just wonāt be able to read an actual pH, because the hydrocarbon doesnāt dissolve enough water.
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Even if theres no water acidity can be altered
Magsil makes the oil alkaline that you run through it
I usually use first pass disty which is waterless and fresh heptane
If I do not do a neutral water wash after chroma Iāll get rose because of Ph imbalance
Recently I did a reflux on disty with t5
It came out rose somehow
T5 definely messes with Ph
I think it grabs onto something when used in crc that raises the Ph because I have a hard time crashing thc a when t5 is used
When I put a little t41 right above it I get diamond forming within 12 hours
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It is important to remember that water adsorbs from humidity in air to particles and surfaces of any polar compound, and especially those containing single-bonded O, H, or OH groups at their surfaces. The more rough or porous the oxide surface, the more water it can adsorb. The aDsorption on a porous material can even be classified as aBsorption, since the water goes down into the material body, lining the interior walls of the pores. Smooth surfaces like crystalline quartz or amorphous glass will generally only adsorb a layer, one water molecule thick, known as a monolayer. If you have ever baked your clay (calcined or not), magsil, or activated charcoal, you have probably seen the fog and droplets of water condensation forming on the inside of the cooler glass door window, blowing out the exhaust of a diaphragm or dry scroll pump, or clouding up the oil in a rotary vane vacuum pump.
Aluminosilicates (clays) are naturally hydrated layers of alumina (aka: aluminum oxide, corundum, abrasive grit) and silica (aka: silicon dioxide, quartz, glass, sand). Each of these elemental oxides will form at least a monolayer of water molecules across their surfaces when exposed to normal air moisture. Clays are characterized by alternating sheets (aka: leaves or lamellae) of these oxides, often doped with other metal ions, and forcefully āgluedā together by monolayers of water molecules, called intercalated waters of hydration. This water is so strongly bound that it requires calcinationāfiring the clay in a furnace at temperatures in excess of 400Ā°Cājust to begin to dry it out of the clay! The tiny pores in silica diatom skeletons can also tightly bind water in this way, as in diatomaceous earth. Fortunately, these materials will not rehydrate to this degree after calcining. Like terracotta or other unglazed ceramics, they can adsorb/absorb water superficially, but this water can be dried out of them under normal oven conditions.
Acidic, alkaline, and pH
I actually think some of the confusion here is caused by calling them acids and bases when they are not dissociated in water. Let me clear that upā¦
The Brƶnstead theory of acids and bases is the most well known. āAcidsā are hydrogen cation (aka proton or H+) donors. These molecules dissociate (ionize) in water, and the acidic species is actually the hydronium cation the protons form with water, H3O+.
Acids can have one or more labile protons, and each subsequent proton is less dissociable (i.e. less acidic or weaker) in pure water than the proton before it. āStrongā acids completely dissociate in water, while āweakā acids dissociate only partially to set up an equilibrium in water of dissociated and non-dissociated species.
āBasesā are hydroxide anion (aka OH-) donors and proton acceptors. This is why acid + base = water + salt.
It helps to recognize that an alkaline hydroxide is actually the product of a (usually alkaline earth or earth) metal oxide and water:
MgO + H2O = Mg(OH)2
2(NaO) + H2O = 2(NaOH)
The negative log to base 10 constant ( p ) that denotes dissociability (K) of acids (a) or bases (b) are normalized for concentration of free protons (H) in aqueous (water) solutions. In other words, pKa, pKb, and pH are water based measurements.
Therefore, when discussing dry acids and bases in non-polar systems, it is best to use terms of electronegativity and electropositivity, or nucleophiles and electrophiles. Acids are electropositive or electrophiles. Bases are electronegative or nucleophiles.
@Kingofthekush420 Your description sounds like a couple different things happening. Even considering the natural humidity adsorption of these materials, we also know that acids and bases are catalysts for cannabinoid reactions, even when no water is present. Isomerization is NOT a neutralization reaction, which we know because it is a catalysis; the acid does not get used up, reacted, turned into a salt and water or something else. The electrophilic (acid) molecule is simply providing a bit of energy to drive the reaction up over the activation hill. In the case of rose colored disty, we are probably seeing quinoid formation; oxygen radicals are attaching to some of the cannabinoids.
If you are not baking out the water from the surfaces of your media, it is entirely possible for the non-polar solvent to mechanically wash off some of the ionized aqueous layer and keep it dissolved. Water is the universal solvent, after all. Actually, even if you do bake the media totally dry, the solvent can still pick up minute particles and even individual molecules of the media, which need only find the water adsorbed to the inside of your glassware to dissociate. It is these sort of unexpected phenomena that make a truly anhydrous reaction (like what is required to use Lewis acid on CBD to make Ī9-THC) so infernally difficult to prepare!
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Master Class on aluminosilicateš»
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Things can accept and donate protons without being an acid or base though
Sulphur isnāt a base but if you throw it in with thc and heat it up hot enough itll pull hydrogens and make cbn.
T5 donates a hydrogen to make d8 in the flask with d9
Same thing with carbon yet theyāre not acids.
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Who said sulphur isnāt a base? Sulfur can be highly reactive. If it has the ability to accept/donate electrons, or donate/accept H+ then it can be called an acid or a base, respectively.
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huh, its almost like you arent a chemist or something.
if i wasnt a chemist, and a chemist was explaining chemistry to me, i would probably not argue. but thats just me.
If you throw sulphur in water it isnt going to change the PH of the water though
T5 can then be called an acid if itās making d8 since its donating a proton even though its āneutralā
Itās almost like you have nothing better to do then to bug me
Must be nice to not have anything to do
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Greatā¦so sulphur is not an arrhenius base. That is the only acid/base definition that relates to water. You do realize there are two other definitions of an acid and a base right? You donāt need water for something to be acidic or basic. Thatās a property thatās intrinsic to the molecule or atom itself, regardless of its surrounding environment.
I bet if you put Sulfuric acid into water youāll change the pH.
EDIT Corrected some spelling, itās been a long day.
You do realize this is exactly what Iām saying?
Read this thread from the beginning
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So we are in agreement.
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100% 
If crystallization is happening at a lower pH than a higher pH, then we can probably at least assume that THCa prefers a molecular crystallization structure. I would imagine that as the pH increases we get closer and closer to the pkA of THCa, and once we get too basic in pH we deprotonate the molecule (when pH > pKa) and since THCa has no positively charged functional groups at this point, we most likely see significant repulsion from the negative charges and thus much more difficulty in crystallization.
This would be the most rational thought behind why a more alkaline environment makes it more difficult to crystallize.
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Yes, there are plenty of acids and bases that have no hydrogen ions involved! They are electrophiles and nucleophiles! Lewis acids that are not also Brƶnstead acids are often examples of such electrophiles.
There really are not āthings that can accept and donate protons without being acid or baseā unless you are talking about nuclear chemistry. A proton is specifically a hydrogen nucleus without an electron. There are plenty of other positively charged ions (aka: cations) like the carbocation, C+, and transition metal ions like FeĀ²+, etc., which are naturally electrophiles and often not considered acids. And in nuclear chemistry, hydrogen atoms can be accelerated in a cyclotron as a plasma of electrons and protons, then the electrons are stripped away by a graphite ground window just before the target, allowing just the protons to pass through and slam into, say OĀ¹āø nuclei in a He-pressurized heavy water target, to make the short-lived radioisotope FĀ¹ā¹. However, non-plasma lone protons in solution are otherwise exclusively known as acids.
Correct, sulfur is not a Brƶnstead base. It is an oxidizer in the case you mentioned. That is called a redox (aka: reduction/oxidation) reaction. The sulfur gets reduced (electrons stripped, hydrogen added) and the cannabinoid ring gets oxidized (electrons added, hydrogen stripped).
T5 and ac are not ādonating protonsā. They are catalytic in nature. They may have some leftover free acid stuck in their pores, which can be washed out into alcohol, water, or even alkanes to a lesser degree. Unless water is present (possibly in the pores with the free acid), the acid will not dissociate and yield a pH. Certainly some acids and bases can dissolve in non-polar solvents (e.g. para-toluenesulfonic acid), but without water (e.g. the monohydrate of p-tosic acid has 1 mol of water per mol of acid), the acid will not dissociate into H+ (actually hydronium H3O+) and the conjugate baseā¦ so pH will not exist.
T5 (partially calcined, acid-activated calcium bentonite, I believe) and activated charcoal (although we abbreviate it ācarbonā, it is actually an expanded carbon matrix with highly functionalized surface chemistry, namely carboxylic acid groups and/or simple hydroxide groups) are both extremely porous particulates with strongly āactivatedā surfaces. Their acid and/or steam activation leaves them with acidic chemistry, and having those functional groups attached to solid particles actually makes them even more effective as catalysts; even if the acid groups are weak (and pH in water appears mild or neutral), like carboxylic acid, they can behave like a strong acid catalyst, but with fewer byproducts than pure strong acids might create.
In fact many other catalysts, such as palladium, platinum, and other precious metals, are embedded in carbon or clay (zeolite) āsolid supportsā to make them more effective, efficient, easier to remove after rxn, and provide other benefits! The platinum-in-ceramic of our vehiclesā catalytic converters are a perfect example!
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