I need recommendations for a replacement mantel. I have an Azzota the spinner motor died in and was given the OK to replace it. What are you using? links appreciated!
Glascol via Lab Society is the best one I’ve come across
I agree as far as the Glas-Col. Very easy to hook up a different sized mantle without needing new controllers. Top/bottom heating control, as well as a cooling option.
This is an opinion thread but I figured i would chime in from the other side of things. I’ve owned a glas col 20L mantle for 4+ years. It works great. Very accurate and simple. But I’ve found for short path that I actually prefer the workings of the Summit mantles. Once you understand your system and the pid, scaling temps is a breeze. Not to mention My glascol has never been able to keep up speed wise with my summits. Due to the voltage difference (110V vs 220V) and the wattage difference (difference based on mantle size). The glas col will hit boiling points and get stuck trying to heat through them. Though this is generally good because the system is less likely to overload with vapor. But getting through the bad fractions and as close to the main body as possible as early as possible has always given me the best results.
Have you ever tried controlling the wattage yourself with an analog controller? I wonder how hard that would be to fine tune, as opposed to the PID algorithm
While the bottom 12L Glas-Col mantle is only 700w, the additional top mantle is 500w. Both are available 110/220v. Important to note, these new mantles are significantly higher power than the older models. I’ve found I cant even come close to overwhelming the cold trap in my “heat in = heat out” distillation equation. I have the same experience with my summit mantle as well.
Where the Glas-Col stands above, is, when tied to a J-Kem temperature controller, it can be semi automated. Using free J-Kem software currently, all mantle ramping can be programmed. The software runs on a PC/Tablet and also records and graphs multiple temperature points as well as vacuum.
Shameless plug @LabSociety has an updated, more user friendly software interface dropping shortly.
I started with an Azzota Amazon mantle that used an analog “% of power” controller rather than a pid. It works but can be tedious at best
Theses no comparison to a glas col, the 220v model heats very briskly, and has a good stirrer.
A far cry from a Chinese mantle, rebranded, marked up and sold. Most if not all Elliots mantles don’t include a top mantle, I say most because his website is garbage and doesn’t have pictures for all his items. I don’t want to assume, but I feel this is accurate. If anyone wants a Chinese mantle you can find the same one he sells for $400 ish usd. It is on alibaba, and ebay.
My glas Cole is still 110V which is probably why I have trouble getting the temps to scale quickly. And I don’t have the upper section. Though I wonder about heating the upper and what proper procedure should be. My reasoning comes from Columbo and I researching the use of heat tape on the boiling flask / Head joint to increase column temp thereby decreasing boiling flask temp need. When done correctly, it worked pretty well but slow, when too much temp was chosen the reaction would stop… it almost seemed like to much pressure was created from vaporization of the cannabinoids and so the column would over pressurize and hold back material. That’s my main concern with heated mantle tops.
Other then that on a wide bore assembly I can easily overwhelm a cold trap or even 3 with temp scaling on a first pass… I’ve seen 5000 micron during temp scale with 2 Edwards 30s on and running. Granted that was a 20L system with a 3.25” stir bar at like 1800 rpms. But it was still pretty scary considering that’s not that far off atmosphere. I know atmosphere is 760,000 micron… but to get to 5000 takes a second really. I didn’t change anything when that depth showed up. I just let it crank it out and the vac depth eventually stated cruising down. But wide bore is really hard to stop. Thus the decision to try an HE friedrich
What about using a large stainless trap?
Cleaning a stainless trap seems more complicated then boiling some acetone through a few glass ones. The Summit cup trap has been really effective at slowing the vapor jet down… but I have some other design ideas I’m working on
Why couldn’t you CIP with a stainless trap?
My issues with stainless are many. For one most need a stainless flex hose to connect. Those are notorious for being hard to clean. I’m meticulous about the inside of the system being as clean as possible before starting. Also, a cold trap doesn’t need to be stainless to be efficient. It just needs the proper Labyrinth the create as many points for the vapor to interact with a cold surface. Further typically in a stainless trap to you cannot see the reservoir to know if it’s full or possibly not cold enough and it’s popping… so there’s a lot that rules them out for me personally. If they work for someone else Have fun.
Weld on a sight glass, you’ll be able to see the process. As for cleaning same as glass. It will be easier to manufacture than glass as well. Your design doesn’t need to include bellows type tubing. As for your cold traps boiling ,and making more vapor pressure for your pumps. The answer is simple. The volitiles need to be completely frozen, if the lower portion of your cold trap is allowed to boil it will reflux in the trap. This does three things:
1)you will deplete the dry ice in the trap faster
makes the trap less effective and passes volitiles to your pump
reduces the ultimate vacuum
I had @agilestainless build me a stainless trap. The first version is an exact replica of a glass, dry ice dewar style trap, except the incoming vapor port is tangential to induce a centrifugal effect on the heavy components.
The trap is 36" tall, has a 4" OD, and the “cold finger” dewar part is 3" OD, leaving a 0.5" vapor path (version 2 will have a baffle type system to induce more turbulence. The trap has a 2" TC fitting for the drain, and kf fittings for the vapor stream. The cold finger is welded to the 4" donut shaped lid, which is clamped to the 4" shell. This allows for disassembly for easy cleaning (although CIP with stainless is much preferred)
This allows a user to attach a KF to hose barb for the vapor stream (The way most cold traps are used) or they can use PTFE KF to glass joint adapters to utilize large bore connections.
The drain comes with a PTFE 2" TC to glass joint to allow the attachment of a glass receiving flask to monitor fill.
- No stainless flex hose needed
- Stainless is easier to clean, in general, than glass
- The glass receiving flask makes it as simple to use as a glass alternative
The benefit of all of this, is that the cost to surface area ratio is better at this scale, and significantly better at a larger scale.
We designed and are manufacturing these specifically to throw on a roto to use dry ice to cheat peoples under powered roto chillers, with a much larger volume trap than glass, for cheap. However, based on the performance I believe it will be an upgrade for the average SPD user
Gotta protect dem’ pumps!
Excellent write up!
ya but glass is prettier lol. I’m sure it can be done as you’ve said. A lot of my cold traps came from eBay at like $50 a pop… cant really beat that. But I’m curious. I just enjoy the glass a lot more as well.
Looking at other large WFE units, and other large industrial vacuum processes, including my FFE, I think stainless is the solution for scale. Cold trap, distillation, etc. I prefer glass for standard table top SPD though
If we’re talking about scale about 20L spd that’s an entirely other monster. But going from glass to stainless unnecessarily isn’t helping the situation much. It’s more about being different. If you started getting into the capabilities of labyrinth style cold traps… then maybe. But just because it’s stainless doesn’t make it better. Or cheaper.
I prefer glass because I can learn more from it. Being able to see the actions that happen inside an Alembic would have never brought me to the conclusions that I now have… a sight hole wouldn’t have done it either… you need to see what you’re doing to study it.