Hello, I’m new here so I hope I’m following the rules properly, it’s a learning process for me and I’m a bit out of my league.
I keep up frequently with the “altcannabinoids” forum on Reddit and a very common pattern I’ve been noticing is that a select group of people seem to report completely opposite subjective reactions between the same cannabinoids, the main ones being ∆8 and HHC.
For example, most people report ∆8 causing primarily a relaxing body high with a milder headspace, and HHC being primarily a clearheaded and euphoric high with a less prominent body high. But a small subset of people report experiencing the opposite: ∆8 being very heady and HHC being mostly a body sensation. But theoretically, if the difference between these cannabinoids is mainly the potency, I can’t help but wonder if there’s another reason for why they feel different (and peculiarly as opposites).
Personally, I have a few theories as to why and I wanted to run them past y’all to see if I’m onto anything interesting or if I’m just confused.
1) Differences in ECS: Maybe it’s as simple as different people react differently to the same cannabinoid, and there’s nothing else to it. IIRC, this is the main belief that most consumers hold, aka, that ∆8 and HHC feel different because it’s just a different chemical, and that’s it. I am aware that CB1 agonists can bind to different parts of the receptor or cause different activation, so it would make sense if this was the case.
2) Distillate minor cannabinoid content: Since minor cannabinoids are a common byproduct from distillate synthesis (a common one being CBN I’ve found), maybe ∆8 distillate commonly contains some small amount of CBN (I found a COA with 1.5% CBN) and that’s why most people report a strong body high. Since ∆8 and HHC are produced differently, I wonder if it’s possible that CBN is a common byproduct when making ∆8, but not HHC, explaining why ∆8 feels sedating to most typical responders, and that those experiencing very heady effects (“opposite responders”) just got a batch with less CBN or other byproducts.
3) Distillate unknown cannabinoids content: There’s also usually a large amount of unknown cannabinoids left in distillates (10%+) like iso-THC or exo-THC which are likely contributing to the effects. Perhaps the amount and type of byproducts are causing certain effects, and the content of these byproducts depend on the synthesis method.
I’m currently collecting more data, but I wanted to ask here since I’ve come across a few other posts that explain something similar to my ideas:
100% agree on the endocannabinoid system differences. along with any issues going on in the body, the CB receptors could be more focused in a certain area (more CB2 receptors being replenished and filled in the immune system for an autoimmune disorder as opposed to targeting both the CB2 receptors in the Peripheral Organs and Immune System) Could be that our bodies are sending the cannnabinoids to the receptors in the areas associated with an ailment/disease going on. Another theory ive been seeing more and more is the correlation of CHS and the ECS. Having less receptors to bind with the cannabinoids cannot properly interact with the ECS causing them to be excreted from the body in the ways of (vommiting, the runs, heavy sweating,etc). In the differences of cannabinoid interaction, a thing that i’ve come across is the Psychological factors of the person. (EX. ADD/ADHD individual might have the blissful/soothing effects of CBG be more dominant than its energizing functions compared to someone who may not have ADD/ADHD but instead maybe has a variant of Lyme or ailments that cause heavy fatigue, this individual is more prone to get the energizing effects compared to the blissful/soothing effects)
Consider too that some people experience biphasic effects of cannabinoids and terpenes. I would suggest, it appears that people find THCV exceptionally mild in low doses but exceptionally potent in large doses. Limonene can also go from pleasant to dysphoric after someone finds their balance. Also, consider the compounding complexities. Pinene is a terpene that promotes a high functioning head and body, but when compounded with a lot of myrcene then some of us ready to take a nap. I’m sorry I don’t have a reference to cite at this moment. Also, there is the metabolization to consider.
I also think there’s a role for psychosomatic effects related to your opinions of Delta-8 or HHC. Like they might be mostly differentiated by potency, but they feel just different enough that you can tell subconsciously. And many people have had earlier disappointing experiences with misleading claims about one or other alt cannabinoid, so it affects them going forward. I don’t want to discount that some people may have different endocannabinoid receptor densities than I, but if you think “Delta 8 makes made me feel gross that one time”, it might be just enough to turn the high for you in the future, every time something is labelled “Delta 8”. Even if what made you feel gross was a shoddy conversion or some crazy ass liquidizer or burning plastic from a weird disposable.
Just something that tracks with what I’ve noticed about subjective reports of other psychedelic drugs online. Set & setting, most of us are bringing a lot to the table in terms of expectations.
That’s true, it would make a lot of sense since individual responses to stuff like CBG particularly are so variable. I’m actually a poor responder to CBG and get a lot of negative effects while most seems to like it.
Yes very true about the biphasic effects, in fact a consistent pattern I see is the efficacy at CB1 determines its effect profile, where lower efficacy agonists (like CBN) are more sedative and higher efficacy agonists are more excitatory. It would make sense as THC’s biphasic effects control GABA and glutamate balance.
So for example:
∆9 THC-P
9R HHC
∆9 THC
∆8 THC
CBN
But it might not be true, just a guess based on a pattern!
That’s true about the psychosomatic/placebo response, but I think it can be ruled out since the effects are quite noticeably different of even just straight ∆8 distillate and HHC distillate, not even in a commercial product formulation. So in the absence of terpenes and minor cannabinoids (other than what’s already in the distillate), there’s certainly noticable differences in subjective effects between ∆8 and HHC distillate. I think it’d make more sense that they either A) have different pharmacology or B) contain minor cannabioid byproducts like CBN, THCv, CBD, iso/exo-THC that augment the high
Yeah I guess what I was saying was a combination of the two. Like if someone has had a shoddy D8 conversion early on that colors their preconceptions of D8 going forward. Or if someone actually had D8 from their BM plug selling them D9/D8 (+ exo/iso whatever) mystery blends for months and months that they got unsatisfied with, then the first time they ever tried HHC, it was cut with 2% HHCp/HHCv or whatever. Even if they had only clean D8 and HHC supply going forward, it might take a long time for those cues to fade.
Spot on, everyone has a different chemistry and affected differently.
I like tobsay thats why alchoholics, meth head, pot head, opiate addict, everyone has there own experience with different things and what makes them feel a certain way.
Not sure if d8 has anything like thc with sativa and indica swinging things too.
And how consistent is the d8 or hhc product? Many factors ,
Feedback from customers usually helps alot when fine tuning a product. Thats how i finally perfected my gummie soo, feedback and adjust
I would like to add that cannabinoids are considered immunomodulators (so yes various between person) but you also have to know that CB1 and CB2 are G-proteins so the receptor activation has a a ton of downstream effects because g-proteins alone have multiple signaling molecules to have different effects. So yes variance in a persons CB1/CB2 receptors is an easy answer to how effects of cannabinoids act like dominos in signaling.
I would also like to point out that HHC’s as a class degrade differently in the body due to the lack of d9/d8 alkene that is susceptible to oxidative degradation in the liver. So D8 compares to D9 more than their HHC variants do.
Iso-THCs are usually the marker of a synthetic or conversion reaction so studies eventually on D8/D9 iso would clarify their role. Also CBN would be the opposite of HHC chemically and unlikely to be a byproduct due to the dehydrogenation process.
