those low profile vessels are a nice touch.
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What’s the lead time/price for this? Also what type of throughput are you seeing?
60-100k depending on options.
1-2gpm+ depending on heating/cooling choices on v1, this is v2 and should be 2gpm+ since it solved the vapor lock issue v1 had.
Lead time is variable, you will need to contact them directly
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How much evaporation surface area does your v2 have?
Looks so sexy!
Evaporator
55 tubes
.5" OD
.37" ID
.065" Wall Thickness
46.76" Length
54.35"² Tube Inner Surface Area
73.45"² Tube Outer Surface Area
x 55
2988.7"² T ID SA
4039.75"² T OD SA
PreHeater
14 tubes
.5" OD
.37" ID
.065" Wall Thickness
24.76" Length
28.78"² Tube Inner Surface Area
38.89"² Tube Outer Surface Area
x 14
402.92 ”² T ID SA
544.46"² T OD SA
3391.62"² Total Combined ID SA
4584.21"² Total Combined OD SA
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Pretty sure I’ve seen some math floating around in here that could get me close to telling you the max amt of ethanol that could be evaporated with this surface area…
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Hey future,
I think your math is off by a factor of 2.
.37in x 3.14 x 46.76in x 55 = 2988 sq in Total ID SA
I appreciate you sharing your design with us.
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Based on some back of the envelope scaling from the known throughput of the BZB unit (maybe 180-200L/hr maximum with adequate cooling), and the heat transfer areas (33.79 sqft for BZB, 20.75 sqft for Future’s), one could guess that about 120L/hr is a reasonable estimation.
But then after I run those numbers, I look above and see that Future says that he’s getting 2+ gpm (450+ L/hr), which is way more than that. I don’t really feel like busting out my thermo textbooks to go back to first principles and figure out why. Maybe the 1/8" tubes on the BZB (if they’re still using that ID) are too small and saturate too fast?
If it’s really $60-100k (without heat/cooling sources of course) for 2+gpm of ethanol recovery that is by far the best value proposition on the market right now. And making me seriously consider scrapping my own design.
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Yup, entered diameter in place of radius 
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Couple variables and observations
-Solution was at 40-45c in the pre preheater barrel.
-The faster I ran the water flow, the faster she went all around.
(Remember I had it plumbed 10c well water at 7lpm, then into the 200k BTU propane heater, out at 80c and from there to the evaporator, from there to the preheater)
Obviously surface area is eventually the limiting factor all other things considered, but I’d love to see some math behind all of this. My initial observations we’re limited by a design flaw in v1.
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No matter how you look at it, it is a simple thermal energy equation. Yes, the surface area will help the rate of vaporization, but it is limited to the extent of energy capable of conducting via the surface pathway. Recirculation over the same pathway will yield similar results to more surface area so long as you have adequate heat energy to back it up.
At 200k btu (58kw), that thing should rip. You have enough heat energy for over 60gph of vaporization, the problem is re-condensating that massive heat load. Tap water will be hard pressed to keep up even at optimal flow rates and ground temps. Calcification of the HE and other issues come up too.
The math is pretty straight forward as the specific heat equation you can find here
You can find the isobaric heat capacity of ethanol based upon temperature here
Once you have your mass balance you can factor by the thermal conductivity capacity of 304 or 316 (whatever you are using). That info is here
You will have a theoretical maximum vaporization rate from the above info. I say theoretical because that math assumes you are operating with no energy losses. That also needs to be factored.
Our unit is 22kw on the front end, 22kw on the back end. We hit 100lph+ (25gph+). We also added tablet remote PLC control and are going to add some sensors to optimize. Come check it out at the Vegas show. Here is a teaser link.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpzeDvcBci7/
Hope to see you there also Dustin.
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Here’s a calculator that can be used to determine approximate energy requirements for specific amounts of ethanol recovery. This is the ideal/perfect situation setup, actual heat recovery rates will be lower so long as you’re obeying the laws of thermodynamics… which everyone should do.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IOTKDyLu3lmWqnNgrOjpZUZNUFqjIwSQ
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Basically one of my main jobs at bzb is to test heater and chiller combos. The 36kw combo netted us 174L/hr but we offer multiple options as far as speed goes so you can upgrade heaters and chillers in the future and keep using the same steel and everything.
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Absolutely will! Can’t wait!!
Where do you think your current design caps out?
I’d guess 250L/hr before we expand it and add more surface area.
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Thanks for this!
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Price for steel only to Rotarua NZ?
It’s not quite legal there yet, but they are planning on cornering the global market 
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~1gal/hr per kw is ‘good’ efficiency.
you guys have covered a lot of the design difficulties so far.
they behave much differently with extract than clean solvent 
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When I was doing butane extraction, I always wondered why not use a Heat Pump. I thought it was inefficient that I had a device trying to keep one thing really cold and another device to make hot water. Using a single heat pump I could achieve both processes. Couldn’t you do the same for the FFE? Some type of heat pump that is dumping super hot water where you need and at the same time super cold water on the other side of the unit. Similar to a peltier plate in CPU coolers. One side is really cold, the other side is really hot. Or maybe they all ready do this… 
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