You can mitigate cloudiness with proper surfactant ratios! Happy to send you PoC of a couple formulations to substantiate this, particle size is typically a function of surfactant ratio and polysorbates do wonders for creating these types of emulsions, though I’m not the biggest fan for a couple reasons. 3rd party stability data is on https://www.eth-an.com/research as well as some articles and awards of the products I’ve supplied for over the years.
I provide surfactant mixtures that can be utilized in microfluidics or sonication-based manufacturing schema. Its a simple ‘add jar A to your cannabinoid extract, make your coarse emulsion, add jar B and process’ set up. The surfactant mixtures are tailored to the end product form to mitigate potency discrepancies seen with improper surfactant systems being utilized for things like edibles vs. aluminum cans vs. things like kombucha and citric/low pH mixers, etc.
I’m not necessarily trying to win any business here though, and am happy to just keep discussing the topic here or elsewhere if you have further questions. You know where to find Phil and I.
Y’all had me until the spurs of nano not actually being more bioavailable. This conversation went from 200 iq to… RQ.
Could not agree more with this but companies falsely advertising a product they do not sonicate after emulsion is not because the technology is lacking nor does it (not) increase bioavailability. Coconut oil itself is a lipid but there are 2 other things in it that make it a phospholipid. Lipids and oils are just about as close as it gets. I dont see how an oil based emulsion would have issues dispersing an oil based concentrate in our bodies that readily absorb the MCT oils in these emulsifiers, Emulsified or not, not to mention the endless studies that show phospholipids like lechtin GREATLY Improve bioavailability… I have tested several products sub 200 nm and if that PHd chemist really belives that tell him to come take 100mg of this tincture and see if he dont freak out in the next 30 seconds loooool.
Claiming “nano” means you have “shrunk” it below 2microns sub 2 nanometers. This is small enough to go straight into the blood stream(not my research plenty out there) wish i had it saved somewhere but anyways. 100% of the emulsifiers on the market are composed of 70-80% coconut oil - to claim it has no increased bioaviability at nano w.o specifying a molecule size i may add. is quite the claim.
ah shit i forgot to add italics loool. No by some receptors/pathways, I have not read into exacts for cannabis but some other oral applications ive read on went thru transcellular and paracellular pathways
The point I was making is that there is no need to emulsify a mixture of THC in MCT, since the THC will readily form a solution. Sonication of THC in an aqueous mixture will not make the THC molecule any smaller than it is in the MCT solution. In fact, it will be larger since it is wrapped in the liposome. How would sonication make it more bioavailable?
The acidic environment of the gut is actually not good for volatiles such as terpenes. Therefore, the best delivery method with respect to nanoencapsulated terpenes would theoretically be sublingual such as a tincture.
oh I fucking agree. I get pissed off at indica/sativa edibles for this reason.
sublingual/transdermal/buccal will avoid first-pass metabolism.
my question about the survival of efficacious forms through the liver still stands because even if they survive the gut they face the liver before hitting the blood-brain barrier. In order to have effect they must retain active form.
Not saying this is the case, but it is a viable explanation of a subjective observation. (also presuming that that the only change in your formulation is whether you create an emulsion and sonicate it).
The placebo effect is a beneficial health outcome resulting from a person’s anticipation that an intervention will help. How a health care provider interacts with a patient also may bring about a positive response that’s independent of any specific treatment.
LOL placebo effect. When the people who test them know they are just gummies and they relate the same information about the onset how do you explain that?
Type nano and those pathways, the patent should come up. Its why i said i dont know for cannabis because ive read in several applications that its “recieved” in several different manners.
@El_Caribe There is plenty reason to dilute D9 in 96%MCT oil especially if its a phospholipid mixed with another that’s publicly documented in many patents that helps absorption of MCT fats/oils (Lecithin) . I have some of these patents posted in some of the edible topics here. The effectiveness of the high is directly related to the absorption of the fats/oil which is the carrier(what encapsulates) for…
Mitokid, do you have any other resources besides the paper you linked below that describe the use of beta-cyclodextrins? In the paper, they seem to describe a basic method of complexing cannabinoids (distillate) by shaking with DI water and beta-cyclodextrins for 1-2 hours. Is this the basic method that you are aware of that others are using these days?
My company currently manufactures water soluble cannabinoid nanoemulsions using a high pressure homogenizer (GEA Panda Plus). We have also recently purchased a TP-S15 spray dryer and intend to begin manufacturing powder.
I plan to simply add maltodextrin and/or beta-cyclodextrin to our water soluble nanoemulsions to make the feedstock for the spray dryer (perhaps 8-20% w/w). Any thoughts on this approach?
There are a lot of resources on the internet but I’d probably start by looking up the references in that paper.
The appeal of cyclodextrin inclusion complexes is that they only consist of cyclodextrin molecules and the included guest molecule. In principle, you can obtain near perfect 2:1 stoichiometry; two cyclodextrin molecules for every cannabinoid molecule.
Yeah. I’ve read about 5 papers now and it seems like the CD complexes are kind of their own totally separate way to make water-soluble powders. Kind of seems like they would not have utility in the setting of homogenized nanoemulsions.