@Waxplug1 mentioned using silica and carbon instead
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He had the plans on ICmag at one point, but I cant find the drawings anymore.
Here is a quote ripped from him on the matter though:
We switched to less dusty and messy refrigeration dual molded #48 zeolite filter drier inserts, inside a stainless case that we make out of sanitary tubes, and install on the input to the pump.
The case has a tangent intake, to minimize direct impingement on the filter inserts. We’ve already gotten feedback regarding pumps saved, despite an operator ooops.
It is also easier to service on the inlet side, because you don’t have to recover it first.
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While my cyclone filter drier design is not a part of my current litigation, it is close enough to their version of it, that its probably best if I not share the design details, but I can tell you how to design your own version.
I designed mine based on the Catch All system on page 21 of the following link.
https://www.parker.com/literature/Sporlan/Sporlan%20pdf%20files/Sporlan%20pdf%20040/40-10.pdf
What I did was buy the guts from a Sporlan double RCW-48 filter case, and build my own filter case out of a 6” X 12” sanitary spool.
Here is dirty peecture picture of the outside of the cyclone filter drier that we used on the Mk IVB/VB and subsequent models, showing the intake in the middle of the spool on a tangent so that the input stream doesn’t directly impinge on the filter core and discharge was through the top lid.
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I got some carbon beads to try and a few other types otw
Only reason im moving away from zeolite is because when i throw my z beads in the oven they never release as much water as when i bake the clays. The clays seem to hold a massive amount of water. Check this out
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You’re still litigating with that bastard?!?
Are there any issues with me sharing details of the dryer?
I don’t have the cyclone dryer or Vaporhawg anymore but I remember the solid cores being much less dusty than beads though still somewhat fragile.
At the very bottom of the cores, under the silver plate, there is spring that provides compression and seals the orange ring to the underside of the lid.
Parker/Sporlan also make housings similar to this that hold 4 of these cores.
These days I don’t run with a dedicated mol sieve in my system and I haven’t looked back.
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Can you elaborate? No mol sieve at all? Would love to hear your take on it, as I have seen this debated around here for awhile. (Most members leaning towards using one)
And thanks for the pics of the cyclone dryer! That thing is awesome.
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Yup, the litigation goes on.
Yes, that’s my design used on the VaporHawg and the Mk IVB/VB through Mk IVC/VC Terpenator models. I know of no reason you can’t share pictures of your own equipment.
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You’re missing on out some major surface area by leaving that void. Fill it with zeolite beads
If you’re that worried bout dust, acetone wash them and then oven dry.
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I needed that, thank you
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Or 200 proof ethanol!!
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Ok so really though, if there was dust and you always had filter plates and welded disk , then technically any dust from the beads would be caught there just like the media we use?
So why wash them just use proper filteration with your rig every time. It’s good practice to keep the crap out anyways
I think I read the dust will go through a 5 micron filter or sintered disc. And a 1 micron restricts flow.
I may totally off base here…
Could swear I read this somewhere on this forum, can’t recall the thread
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The real idea is to capture as many fine particles (less than the size of your smallest mesh) by means of a wash—the hope is that the fines will fall to the bottom of the solvent and you can scoop out the beads.
It’s not the most critical thing to do, since your adsorbents and sieves should pass a certain quality spec by the time they get to you, but if you’re a perfectionist, it’s part of the process.
Plus, if you’re going to dry them anyways before use, might as well.
You can realistically go down to 0.2 micron, but you have to pre filter the solution to do so.
For instance, 50um material bag, put a 20um disc on the bottom of your material column, powders then a de cake on top of a 5um filter (use something like a 6um paper below de), then a 2um filter paper on top of a 1um disc on top of a 0.2um disc.
The idea is to reduce the total filtration burden by spreading it to several filters.
No matter your method you’ll have to clean them out, but if you step them down sequentially then you can reduce the time period between cleans.
In a sense, they all restrict flow, but not to an impossible degree.
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The void is intentionally part of the Cyclone’s design.
Any incoming liquid/oil is flung against the sidewall and kept away from the cores. That’s the “cyclone” action. This helped save a guy’s pump back a few years on ICMag when a new worker overfilled the collection pot.
The solid cores are made from zeolite and are sufficient. A longer housing with more cores can be used if more drying action is needed (it’s not for most systems).
The beads are just too much of a pain in the ass IMO for several reasons. After they’ve been dried out a couple times they’re too brittle and I just don’t like working with them in general. Adding a chore like rinsing/drying beads is not something I want to add to my workload. The solid cores are far superior IME.
Also I have an expensive compressor and prefer to not have beads in the intake line anywhere for its safety.
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I have been running with the same propane in my system (slowly replaced as I lose/add more) without a dedicated mol sieve for over a year without issue. I run my system several times per week.
It is my opinion that water pickup from material (even fresh frozen) is not really that big of an issue and gas only needs to be dried periodically on a maintenance schedule and even that is not really necessary as long as you avoid water pickup from other sources (see last paragraph).
Butane/propane are highly nonpolar and don’t mix with water at all.
Water from material would need to get washed into the collection pot then manage to co-distill with the hydrocarbons to get into the system. This is not very likely because the temp/pressure conditions in the pot are well below the boiling conditions of water so it would tend to stay in the pot, just like the oil.
Also, if there was significant water co-distilling (even though conditions are not right for that to happen) in such quantity that it required a drier on every run that would mean A LOT of water is getting into the collection pot. This would leave you with oil that sizzles violently on the nail due to the residual moisture content.
Have you ever experienced the sizzling I’m talking about? It’s unmistakable and oil shoots everywhere when it hits the nail. The fact that we don’t have major issues of people reporting sizzling oil tells me we don’t have major problems with moisture pickup from material.
I also run lots of fresh frozen and have never experienced moisture problems.
A final point is that if water was co-distilling a lot of it would end up frozen and accumulated in the post compressor heat exchanger after it managed to make it out of the collection pot. This would result in significant liquid water build up in the heat exchanger that would need to be drained every so often. I have never noticed this type of water pickup in my coil and I usually blow it out with compressed air every so often to check.
It is also my opinion that water removal works much better when performed at room temp on the liquid hydrocarbon as opposed to the vapor. This can be an intermittent maintenance item performed every so often. I haven’t dried my gas in about a year and might not ever again.
In HVAC it is generally accepted that moisture pickup with filter/driers is most effective in the liquid line. This is due to the fact that the velocity in the vapor line is typically very high, sometimes up to six times higher or more than the liquid velocity.
A filter drier is usually only used on the suction line of an HVAC system when heavy contamination or compressor burnout has happened. In this instance the filter/drier is functioning more like a plain old particulate filter to protect the compressor.
I think a lot of people run filter driers every run to act as a sort of vapor/oil separator to protect their pump, but they can get clogged easily and act as a restriction. There are better designs for vapor/oil separators that are more free flowing and easier to maintain.
When you get into larger extraction systems with high rates of evaporation and recovery you would also need to start worrying about the pressure drop or restriction from the filter drier. This is another reason why it is best to just not have a drier in the suction line at all.
I have also seen what a mess it is when spits of oil traveling with the vapor stream get into the sieve beads. This can also create a restriction and I would like to avoid dealing with that at all costs.
On a separate note, I think some people have issues with water pickup from other sources such as allowing atmosphere to enter cold system components.
I have seen people who chill their heat exchangers before vaccing them down. This is a huge source for water contamination. You’ve all seen the frost buildup on the outside of cold components, well it happens on the inside too if there’s atmosphere present.
I have also seen people open their filter driers to atmosphere when a run is complete and they’re breaking down their system for the day. The filter housing and sieve beads are usually very cold at this time due to being located in the suction line. As soon as this is exposed to atmosphere water will start condensing on the inside of the housing which will be adsorbed by the beads and lead people to think they’re picking up water from the hydrocarbon stream.
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That’s a cool idea, although the geometry is going to make it difficult to operate as a cyclone separator. Typically for liquid/gas or liquid/liquid cyclone separators the chamber is conical, so that the angular velocity increases as the fluid travels from point A to point B.
I guess it would help to know, what’s the application for this thing?
I always liked drying my gas as i injected into the distilling pot, with a mix of beads. I like those solid cores though
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