Fair point on the pricing , your right it does not need to be $4-5 per G, I’d be very happy if distillate was steadily $3-3.5 per G.
2 Likes
As for sky labs they definitely weren’t bullied or swindled by hemp brokers , they were in the not too distant past one of the largest distillate importers.
Honestly I really don’t care or have much of an opinion on the thca , my lab only produces distillate so that’s my concern.
4 Likes
They ship hemp thca sugar, decarb it, throw it in a shiny zaza pack and voila “distillate pens” 15/$90 all day.
This is pretty commonplace.
If you are growing - or worse buying biomass to make distillate, you can only go so low.
When you’re providing compliant medicine while competing with heavy metal and pesticide poop soup on the low it’s enough to drive the honest players right out of business or to the same pushy brokers causing problems in the first place.
2 Likes
Me too. Then it would be solid for cost to produce, with enough for overhead and a smidgeon for a rainy day.
Wouldn’t it be nice it we had access to all the cannabinoids that other states have access too? I think it would be good. Especially since it seems like everyone is hoarding all their biomass or charging a ridiculous fee for it.
I mean - if hemp is like $4-11 per pound. Why the fuck is cannabis in the hundreds? I mean its good but its bad. It makes no sense that some is like buying tomatoes and some it like buying steel. Always boggles my mind.
And its the government with taxation and regulations that causes this.
If they don’t close the farm bill loop hole for THC - why would anyone continue to make edibles that are from licensed cannabis plants? Where’s the margin in that? When someone can have a hemp license and make the same product for a 1/3 or a 1/5 of the price, with basic taxation, and almost no regulation at all?
I mean - I like the idea of regulation and everyone having the same set of rules to play by. But when literally the enforcement is so slow or sparse that its basically nonexistent (unless of course they are randomly standing on your face while you try to follow their convoluted rules…)
I suppose I wouldn’t mind so much if all the products I want for my wife were readily available and also safe. But alas, it is not the case in Michigan.
2 Likes
I have heard from reliable sources that 30% or possibly more of finished products sold in retail establishments could be from illicit, back door sources which aren’t properly tested.
1 Like
Anything short of suspension of license just becomes the cost of doing business, and will tend to disadvantage the groups trying to do the right thing.
3 Likes
I’m all for interstate and international trade, but let’s be real, there are rules and laws that some of us are following and some are choosing not to.
I don’t believe for a second that anyone sourcing THCa from out of state did so innocently. They were skirting state law and should be punished accordingly. Pull their license, shut them down. If employees lose their jobs, while not their fault, it’s collateral damage. The owners should’ve thought of that before being sneaky and ignoring the law.
2 Likes
<>
I’d just like to point out that according to the rules any violation of the rules could lead to losing your license and having to shut down.
Just fucking think about that for a minute. People are currently being fined for not filing paperwork on time. People are currently being fined for not grinding their waste enough. People are currently being fined because of an accidental misprint on their labels. People are currently being fined because their point of sale system is malfunctioning.
You can be pissed off about people not playing fair, sure, I get it. But fuck all that noise about wanting enforcement to shut down businesses. And I say this because - why are people doing this because they fucking have customers. And who are those customers? Other licensed businesses.
Is a person who purchased hemp THCa distillate products from Sky Labs just as responsible for this bullshit? Should they be shut down as well? Was buying a liter of distillate for less than $2000 a liter ever legitimate? Or only because Sky Labs was willing to be the “in” should they be punished while everyone else who benefited from their actions is innocent?
What about all the people that put Sky Labs distillate products into vape carts? Into gummies? We’re talking about MOST of the operators in the state. And almost every single retail operator in the fucking state.
Should everyone be shutdown? Are some of the people who bought those stupidly cheap liters and vape carts and edibles - less responsible for this problem?
They have said that this between 40 and 60% of the fucking market - not of operators but of every unit sold in the state. Is that someone you know? Is that your own business? Are you 100% positive its not you contributing to this problem?
Because not so long ago people were complaining that there wasn’t enough “enforcement”. And that lead to a change from a pro-business and pro-cannabis director of the CRA to a law enforcement focused director who has charged mostly rule following licensees MILLIONS in fines.
I remember telling people to chill the fuck out back then. Because asking for more enforcement. Advocating for “some people” to get hit with the ban stick - wouldn’t actually help and would hurt most operators.
And now look at us. Even small operators are getting fined for things. Even operators trying their fucking hardest to do the right thing. And now they want to do even more unannounced visits. And now they have let us know just how unreasonable their fine structure is - if you haven’t looked at it. You should. How many of those things are you 100% doing correctly, 100% of the time?
So I reiterate - the fuck are people thinking about asking for the CRA to start shutting businesses down. That’s ludicrous. Because once they are done with the people you think you don’t want around anymore then they will start looking at you or at me or at your neighbor. Because the enforcement apparatus will exist and they will want to continue generating revenue.
Instead we should be asking for things like consent decree - where people who want to bend the rules have the CRA up their butts a lot more.
Instead we should be asking for regulations to be easier to follow and to take the fucking training wheels off the industry. Because if it was allowed in the rules to purchase federally legal THCa products (loophole isn’t closed yet!) and use them in Michigan - why wouldn’t you want to do that if the rules were more flexible? Is it our fault that the federal laws and the state laws are so borked?
Instead we should be asking for complete descheduling and not having to have fucking inspections and investigations all the time. Instead we could be asking to be treated like normal businesses - and yeah, those businesses have rules - but when was the last time a tomato farmer was treated like a criminal? When was the last time your local bakery was treated like a criminal enterprise just for existing? When was the last time that your local corner store had to run mandatory background checks on everyone and file criminal affidavits for every member of the ownership team?
Try not to buy into the prohibitionist hype that somehow we are criminals because the rules are stupid and buying into that hype just leads to people losing their livelihoods - including all the workers. Including the business owners. Including the investors. Including the real estate owner. Including all the supporting vendors.
And all because the plant is illegal. And all because the plant is stigmatized. And all because they don’t want to treat us like a normal agricultural product (even though we are) and instead we are the most dangerous and most precious thing around and we better have more regulation than nuclear power plants and definitely better continue to pit us against ourselves by making the rules so convoluted that success is a hope of a dream.
And finally:
I will tell you right now - that there are plenty of people who did this innocently. People who were told by their lawyers (you know who you are!) that this product is now federally legal. People who didn’t understand that Total THC in Michigan means a fuckton of THC that isn’t actually THC at all not just THCa and D9-THC, but all kinds of other tetrahydrocannabinols.
And those people bought the stuff and then had no idea how to send it back. Because the broker was gone (because he knew accepted a federal loop hole risk and was fly by night to begin with). Or because they bought it from someone else that bought it from someone else that bought it from a hemp guy, who had really great documentation that was still not enough because Michigan’s laws are different.
I cannot tell you how many people called me about this starting last November. SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE. Even well educated and logical people. And I was like the fuck are you doing Michigan law doesn’t allow for this. And people didn’t believe me. And I asked over and over for the CRA to send out a bulletin about it. And it TOOK FUCKING MONTHS for that to happen.
So yeah - are small operators, innocent operators, people who otherwise are following all the rules - also caught up in this? I think so. And I don’t think we should ask to set a precedent that whaps someone with a ban hammer for it.
Now that doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t be inspected more. And it also doesn’t mean that if you are a repeat offender flagrantly violating the rules over and over again that the CRA shouldn’t use the black list to prevent someone from being a supplemental applicant. But even then - does the license go away? Or is the person leading the effort that goes away?
These are questions we should ask ourselves when we think that somehow THE WAR ON DRUGS works. Because it doesn’t. Even when its the war on drugs dressed up like the war on unlicensed operators.
The only way this works is if the regulations and license costs are so basic and simple that anyone who wants to participate can do so. That it doesn’t take a team of fucking lawyers and specialists to make sure you are compliant.
And we are not there yet. But we should be working towards that - instead of asking for more enforcement.
3 Likes
Agreed, but why is the mechanism for fixing this going to be pushing the prices, rather than regulating people selling pesticide and heavy metal laden (or even unknown/iso/exo-THC filled) product out of business? I’m not a prohibitionist, but I’m not foolish enough to forget the role the federal government has in regulating commerce such that we aren’t poisoning people. Just because we’re seeing a backslide in the effectiveness of the FDA due to intentional understaffing and underfunding doesn’t mean that the entire concept of regulation is a lost cause.
Make the terms clear, and if someone is still moving poison, throw the fucking book at them. If you’re a broker and that shit is passing through your hands, make the broker liable if they don’t do their own due diligence / testing. Some accountability of sorts. You know how Martin Shkreli can’t work in pharma anymore? How about some stuff like that? You try and reincorporate under a new name and it’s another fine, further punishment, potentially for those working with you too, for not doing their due diligence.
1 Like
Yeah, if you’re knowingly sourcing unlicensed THCa products from out of state, you should know better than to do so and should have a good enough understanding of the rules to avoid getting yourself in a pickle. If you don’t, that is 100% YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT and you deserve to lose your license for such an egregious violation. There’s a huge difference between a clerical or procedural error and a blatant skirting of state law.
I’m with you on freeing the market, however, this isn’t one and it won’t be anytime soon, if ever. Playing by the rules and not chasing quick money by skirting the rules is what will keep ya out of hot water.
I really don’t have any sympathy for those who were ignorant of the rules. Sorry, not sorry. Gross ignorance is not an excuse for illegal conduct. It’s really not that hard to stay compliant without a team of lawyers and consultants.
3 Likes