Id like to open this thread to discuss ways to maximize CLS extraction energy efficiency. Specifically Im interested in how to cool recovery vapors with minimal use of dry ice and chillers.
I have several ideas I’d like to share about accomplishing this. Please criticize any way your ego sees fit, I can take it.
My primary idea is to re-purpose these dewax columns of ol’ into heat exchangers. Many extractors seem to be extracting cold and skipping the dewax column. It works well as a surge tank after the material column but I would like to utilize it even more.
The full extraction loop I envision starts by soaking the material column 5-20 mins with -55c n-butane. Then surge into dewax column #1. At the bottom of that column would be some non-media filtration to remove particulates and fats. That would lead to dewax column #2 where the micelle would wait prior to CRC.
Micelle would then pass through CRC or go straight to collection. This is where the “Thermodymagic” happens…
Recovery happens at 45c in my system. The recovery loop would run through the desiccant column, then into the coils at dewax #2. Exiting and entering dewax coils in column #1, which should now be filled with micelle from run #2. After these dewax columns it would hit the condensing coil filled with DI and into the solvent tank, maintaining a consistent -55c.
The dewax columns would scrub some heat from the recovery loop and reduce the cost of dry ice. It would also preheat micelle prior to CRC and collection, speeding up recovery.
Other ways to maximize this might be the use of tube-in-shell or tube-in-tube heat exchangers further utilizing the cold micelle as a coolant for the recovery loop.
Currently Im burning 10lbs DI to 1lbs biomass to run at -55c. This is getting expensive quick!
Something is up. You should burn roughly 5-8 lbs through operation per 30lbs of hydrocarbon recovery. Using a double coil on a 3 or so gallon bucket or a cooler.toill need more to load up the bucket, but while operating it should burn about two fat scoops of do while operating. Maybe 3-4 scoops in a warm room or location.
It is what it is. Ran through 25lbs of biomass and started with 250lbs DI. I also run a GC-5000 which creates a lot of heat. Either way, time to make things more efficient.
Get a two stage coil, the pump doesn’t matter. What really matters is how much vapor is pulled through and sent to the coil. The faster the vapor is moving the more di you’ll need. My example was about 1+lb per min recovery speed. No slower. When you double that, it’s close to almost doubling the di requirement but not completely.
Yea so maybe a bit more. You can reduce it if you have a smaller coil. And if you install a small air cooled radiator to shed the heat off first or may shave it in half.
Ive been thinking about this exact idea. Air cooled radiator would work great for me because I operate in an outdoor pod and the temps are usually cool here 9 months a year.
What are your thoughts on the dewax/heat exchanger mod?
Eh. I’m not sure. I don’t like leaving in there that long. There’s some somewhat inert media that you can use that does a fine job without any sacrifice . Col extractions are great but I don’t find much benefit from letting a machine stall and wasting resources on it.
Copy that. My goal is not to stall but to stage. Getting the second run soaking and the first run recovering is the goal. Staging it with a second sourge tank lets me perform the CRC work with a little more breathing room while the next run is soaking. At this point I have two columns filled with -50c micelle. Seems like they would make great heat exchangers since they no longer need to be that warm. Injecting warmer butane i to recovery would also speed things up. My thought is this would speed things up, not slow them down.
Our systems do not use a water heater or expensive chiller. Just a small MTA to take up the slack from new operators. It is one of our big sales strategies by reducing COGS.
Im sure adding another chiller would help but I would at least like to take advantage of the elephant in the room, which is these 2 columns of 20lbs micelle sitting at -50c waiting to be warmed back up to 40c for recovery.
If not use the dewax column, we could st least use the cold micelle as the coolant in a heat exchanger of some sort. Right?
We can upgrade pretty much any active system to operate on our patent pending tech to get you off of the water heater and minimize your cooling requirements. It is a pretty simple upgrade but requires special equipment. Training included. Does not effect MAQ.
Hey @Zack_illuminated, what is the thickness of the stainless jacket and therefor subsequent pressure vessel steel required to run the projack thermal add on to an already existing system ?
I often wonder how many or if any of the vessels would need to be replaced in order to run your hot/cold tech on 3rd party steel.
I’ma ask a dumb question that’s semi-unrelated, so I apologize for any unintentional derailments → Why are folks using the term “micelle” to refer to their extraction solution? I’m certain my confusion stems from my incomplete knowledge/always more to learn and such (background in microbiology, not chem), but as far as I know, a micelle is a term used to refer to molecular aggregate formations in colloidal solutions.
Like, how oil forms lil bubbles when you add it to water, what’s really happening there is that the oil molecules are being repelled by the water due to differentiations in polarity, with the end of the molecular chain that is most opposite in polarity from the solution itself facing inward, and the most similar in polarity facing outward.
Now, I wouldn’t consider a solution of cannabis oils in liquid hydrocarbons a colloidal solution, nor a micelle/micellar solution due to this polarity-dependent mechanic of micellar structure formations, and the same-same polarity of the subject solution here.
How far off is my own understanding? Where am I veering off-course?
Idk if any other glycol chillers have a variable drive on the compressor but Ultracool does. Its a competitor to MTA. Most glycol chillers on the market are just on/off. Having an intelligent drive leads to a ROI of about 2 years, depending on use and load.
After a quick google search looks like Multistack, G&D, Trane, Carrier and some others do. No mention on MTA website of vfd/variable speed compressor. LAUDA Ultracool_English_21-05-25_jam.pdf (2.8 MB)
