Issues with Indoor Crop Seeking Advice

Botany and Cultivation Cannabis
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Seeking advice on my indoor room. Cannot seem to get over 2 a light and this crop is looking like a total bust.

-Growlink irrigation controls (PIC)+ climate sensor to constantly update trolmaster calibration
-trolmaster for equipment
-growers choice 680s

  • 1 gal coco quick fills 12 per light
  • drip hydro powered line + powersi
    -teros 12 media sensors
    -quest 110 dehum
    -co2

Current climate: 80-82 day temps, 78 night. 56-60% humidity swings day/night due to hot start delay on dehum, 1400 ppm co2, 1100-1200 ppfd at canopy, medias ec at peak dry back 7-8 and 4-5 at full saturation with seemingly correct leaf tip burn not looking like overkill by any means, 45-65% WC control in media. Week 5 now. Run off ph in line and reading slightly below input EC, seems to be correct also.

Rooms climate is in line night and day, vpd stays where supposed to be during various periods of growth. ~1-1.4, heavy generative drybacks during stretch and flush. Co2 alwys 2-300 ppm above ppfd. Bounce my media EC levels depending on strain how it seems to be handling it and hand flush to bring EC down when necessary. Ppfd also in line. Cannot seem to get over 2 a light, genetics are proven in various other licensed grows and specifically this cap junky does 3-4 a light with ease over and over. In week 5 now, never seen such larfy foxtailing before with ppfds reading ~1200 at canopy. Any advice is greatly appreciated, bummed out about this one and hitting a wall trying to get anything 1.5+ a light and tired of leaving so much money on the table, really not sure what I’m doing wrong. First pic glitter bomb second (larfy) cap junky

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I don’t know how much control you have but I’d make the following tweaks. Cap junky in particular can be finnicky.
Your current parameters look good though. I’ve never ran or analyzed drip hydro.

How is your airflow? I would suggest .7-1 m/s

Before getting too deep in the woods on parameters, it might be worth getting a IR temp gun and checking out the temperature of your colas. If the plants are that close to the light, it could be that the process temp of the colas is too high - that can contribute to larfy structure or foxtailing.

I’ve had excellent yields with the following parameters, mixing my own salts and hand watering in organics once per week.

Light and CO2 levels should be fine, you could bring CO2 down a bit if you wanted (1000-1300)

I’ve had good results with 2 gallon Coco pots.

Generative: Wk1-3: 20% Dryback pushing a little bit of runoff
Vegetative Wk 4-6: 15% Dryback
Generative: Wk 6-8/9: ~20-25% last 2-3 weeks

Temp: 80-82F are great for the first ~3 weeks. I’d slowly bring it down to 76F, going down ~1-2F every week or so
I would suggest keeping the night temperature the exact same as the daytime temperature until week 3 (0 Temp Diff) and then do a ~6F temp diff around week 4-5 and keep the nighttime temp around 6F cooler than daytime temps until the end of the cycle.

Daytime Humidity: Week 1: ~70%, Wk2: 66, Wk 3: 63, Wk 4: 58, Wk 5+: 55% and stay there until finish.

Nighttime Humidity: Wk1: 65%, Wk2: 63%, Wk 3: 60%, Wk 4: 55%, Wk 5+: 50%

Just dial back humidity slightly during the night, we want VPD to be similar night and day as large variations in day/night diff should effect yield to some degree. Are you able to route your dehumidifier’s heat outside of your grow room so you see less temperature and humidity swings?

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1 gal coco quick fills

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Almost looks like it was starting to reveg. Sure there’s no light leaks or a messed up timer?

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Yup rooms sealed no light leaks.

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I have a cap junky plant outside that doesnt look much different than that. It doesnt want to fill in and bulk up.

Hop latent viroid is probably worth a test if you havent already.

Clone fatigue is another possibility. When I make seeds from a purchased cut, the plants grown from seed grow much faster than the original cut.

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Still seeking some advice, if anyone comes across this post and can offer some insight. Really stumped on this room in general. Everything is correct I run proven genetics hlvd free, genetics come from a licensed facility in AZ that runs same exact cuts and pull 2 minimum every time but I can’t seem to get over 1.5 a light. Tried asking lead grower I get cuts from and he doesn’t have the time to come do a walk through. Any general advice is greatly appreciated.

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Your parametres looks good.

Im well aware you are running co2 since the high ppfd. But have you considered to much light.
That stretchy foxtailing behavior could be lightstress

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I sent you a note with additional questions and photo requests.

Do you have ppfd top, mid, bottom of the plant?

Do you have temp top, mid, bottom of the plant?

Do you have root temp?

Do you have a secondary sensor to make sure that one sensor isn’t just reporting bullshit?

Is your clone supplier growing indoors or under glass? I see much bigger temp swings growing under glass.

Are you testing your nutrients and do they match the label? No just in EC but in available nutrients?

No pests?

Do you happen to have any images of how the roots look from plants that have already been finished, perhaps?

I sent the other questions via DM. <3

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PPFD I just measure at the top of the plant, measurements below canopy will drop drastically. Growers choice 680s don’t have great canopy penetration.

temps are measured at canopy as well

root temp is consistent with the room, get my media data from my 2 teros 12s. seem to be accurate both read consistently as long as my placement within the pot is done correctly.

clones are grown indoors

I haven’t tested my nutrients no, I use drip hydros powdered line figured they’re pretty trustworthy brand

minimal fungus gnats mid flower when can’t spray anymore, sticky traps in each pot and heavy ipm procedure through veg and week 1-3 flower. when I say minimal I mean I see maybe 10 flying adults in room week 3- flush. been a constant battle but I’ve food combination of sticky traps, neem oil, and Athenas ipm keep them at bay decently well. ill shoot pics of the roots after harvest, but honestly they’re not all that great, they fill the pots out but not as densely as id like to see. wasn’t sure of the best balancing act through veg how drying back aggressively to force further root development vs maintaining quick vegetative growth. I dry back 15% through veg

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I actually dropped my light back about 10% power and am reading ~900 at the canopy, was at 1150/1200. My thoughts also, hasn’t seemed to correct the issue

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With that stretch you are seeing, you might be able to slow up on the vegetative growth a smidgeon and let those roots develop so the plant can consume the nutrients more consistently when its needs to support a bigger body of leaves and flowers.

With things so close to the lights - that lose might actually be happening in just the top couple of inches. Look at your percentage of leaves that would not be getting really any light. Its a majority of your plant in the shadow.

You can’t lift the lights more - so have to control the stretch to give your lights the ability to reach the top +25% of the plant through your trellising.

Do you have the same issue on all cultivars or just the ones that super stretch?

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slow up on the vegetative growth by increasing dry backs a bit I presume you’re meaning?

and yes, really only the top maybe 10" of my canopy is really justifiable to harvest every time. All of my lowers are always small and preemie- not great quality below canopy.

I have the same issue on all cultivars. aside for better controlling my stretch I believe it may be time to purchase some better quality lights- if anyone has any input. running Growers choice 680s currently

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here’s some better photos at canopy for everyone to ponder on

glitter bomb

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cap junky

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Not all genetics can handle 1200 ppfd from my experience. I’ve seen this happen plenty of times when pushing PPFD that high and then on the next run I would keep it sub 900 with no issue. Unfortunately once it happens you can only recover slightly by lowering the PPFD. If you decide to run cap junky again, I would recommend capping somewhere around 900 and see if the same thing happens.

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Was you ppfd around 1100-1200 the whole time during flower or just now in the last few weeks ?

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Or cut the co2 a bit, that’ll stop veggies from stretching out so much if you’re in a rich environment

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I ramp up to 11/12 starting in week 4ish

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Numbers aren’t that bad for those 680’s.

You mentioned you only have 2 teros 12’s, are you moving them periodically? How’s the cap junky compare with the others?

How are you checking run off? Are you isolating strains at all?

I’d suggest .3gph emitters in the 1 gals.

You may see better results running 2 gals with a slightly longer veg.

How are your roots looking?

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I tend to move them periodically if I’m noticing unwanted growth styles ie intense stretching or signs of overwatering/ wilting etc but once it seems they’re properly placed I’ll leave them until harvest. Cap junky is growing very weird, I’ve only ever once before had cultivar be larfy and it wasn’t to the extent this cap junky is doing. The about 1g/ watt max I’ve been capable of yielding seems low in comparison to others, I’ve been under the impression 1.5-2g/watt is standard now with some even boasting 3-4g/watt on some really high yielding cultivars that are dialed in.