Hey all, I’ve got a question for the many experienced minds here.
I work at a company that is setting up to process almost 10,000 pounds of hemp per day. We’ll be doing cryo ethanol centrifuge extraction, producing only crude for the next quarter. This will be for one large client only for now so we know their product should be fairly consistent. Once we have cash flow, the distillation and isolation skids will be purchased as well as THC remediation equipment. Long story short, we have skipped past benchtop/small scale and are going straight to this large scale and I know there’s going to be issues stemming from this.
I feel that we’ll need a smaller scale (~12L) distillation setup so that we can troubleshoot crude before sending it through the larger distillation skids. Can anyone point out some solid reasons for needing this test lab? What would you want in your ideal QC lab? What other benchtop-scale lab items might we need for QC before pushing material through to disty/iso?
Thanks in advance for any help the forum can provide 
As someone who is going through a very similar scale-up process right now (not quite as large), hopefully I can offer some insight.
At our company, once a new piece of equipment comes in the door, no matter how large or small, we anticipate that it will take at least 4 weeks of unreliable productivity before myself or another engineer can:
- Learn the system and parameters
- Rough optimization of parameters
- Develop initial SOP and workflow
- Train a tech to perform SOP with supervision.
During this time, our productivity and yields are questionable because we are experimenting with the parameters and trying different workflows. Anything produced during that 4 week period is essentially “wasted” because it’s not consistent, repeatable quality. Now we don’t literally throw away everything from that period, but our bookkeeping takes into account that anything produced won’t be saleable and if we do have saleable product, then that’s just a plus.
At large scale, all of the above-mentioned steps take longer and will “waste” much more material. Previous experience or engineering expertise can shorten the time this start-up takes. That’s why consultants with specialized experience are a very cost-effective way to get your system up and running with an SOP in as little time as possible.
If you guys aren’t doing so already, in-house analytics are an absolute must-have. Sending out samples at $100 a pop and waiting a week for feedback while you’re trying to optimize your parameters is a huge drain on resources.
Your wording (12L) implies that you’d be considering a short-path for small scale process development? This is totally fine as long as your large scale skid also operates on a similar batch distillation scheme. If your large-scale skid is a Wiped Film, then you would want to develop your parameters on a smaller wiped film system as the parameter development is very different with each.
THC remediation via chromatography really requires a small scale HPLC system for process development. There’s the added benefit that the HPLC can also be used for your analytics! You could do your process development on the large scale system, but again you’re losing a lot of time and money on wasted runs while you all are getting things dialed-in.
Just my 2 cents.
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Thanks for taking the time to write such a clear and thought out response, @mcpikeig.
We definitely expect to have a steep learning curve once the equipment is up and running. Luckily, we have a process engineer from next door in Colorado that will come in and help with most of the process streamlining. He has helped with the install of 6 similar systems, so it’s great to have him on our side. I’m sure that we will also be more than willing to pay consultants as issues arise. I’m only worried about accidentally helping them find my replacement. I’m got my BS in Botany and Chemistry, but there’s plenty of Masters and Phds that could swoop in on my position so I weirdly feel I have to protect that while getting this up and running. I don’t have a solid contract with this company yet but I’m trying to get that in motion.
We will have our own lab with HPLC that does potency and we’ll also do our own microbials, but heavy metals, pesticides, and residual solvent testing will be sent out. I plan on pulling samples from every part of the process and overwhelming myself with data.
Good point on using a similar distillation scheme. I was just thinking that I could put it through the short path to be more confident that nothing unexpected happens with the material going through the larger and much more expensive to run equipment. Recommendations on a proper small scale wiped film unit? Those threads are sometimes pretty wild.
THC remediation makes sense to me, and I feel I understand most of what I read on here regarding it. I’m fortunate to have a job that allows me to surf the hell out of future4200 because of how much helpful material is on here. It kind of blows my mind that some of the equipment lead times are so high and even then there’s many months of R&D that need to be invested after the equipment is setup. You’d think that at a cool $2 MM for the size of equipment we’ll need for remediation that it would come with an SOP or at least an engineer for a month to help develop one.
I’ve gotta get these guys for pay for my GLG
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