Hey I am wondering what equipment I need to convert THC or CBD distillate to CBN? Also what is the process?
Any insight would be great. I am looking to do this on a large scale.
First, you need a biochemical/bioelectric network of ion channels, neurotransmitters and extracellular receptors that communicate and create quantum computations, which allow you to form rational opinions about facts and logic based on your observations of the reality you perceive.
Once you download some utility drives to your quantum computer, use the search bar and look at ways to make cbd to thc, and then look at ways to make thc into cbn.
29 Likes
You need @Ruwan to make a robot clone of himself and get it installed in your lab.
This isn’t the kind of work that should be done without serious organic chemistry knowledge and skill.
Weed people playing shulgin is a recipe for disaster.
Leave the work to the Shulginites
8 Likes
8 Likes
@Ruwan I was waiting somewhat impatiently on your reply. I was not disappoint! You sir win 10 internets. Bravo
4 Likes
Shulgins lab was far from anything that would pass a fire Marshall’s inspection and led ,in part, to his license being revoked.
He was a genius but lab safety wasn’t his priority at all. Shulgin also rarely worked with plant extracts. The vast majority of his syntheses worked with pure compounds from the start, making work ups much easier.
As @anon93688 can attest, there’s more to making a safe product then a pure organic or synthetic chemistry education provides. Medicinal chemistry and pharmacology are separate branches that have more focus on creating processes that are safe for human ingestion.
A well trained compounding pharmacist(Pharm.D) is what you want. Alternatively, Chemical Engineers are great candidates for our line of work
6 Likes
Join the club bub
1 Like
Analytical chemistry is essential.
I 100% agree with you @Dabatronicus
Takes a team. Crazy visionary to see it, excellent synthesis chemist like Sasha, and lastly, an analytical chemist that can isolate and test ie individual enantiomers and evaluate product safety.
Also, quinones etc - for example I got all excited about cbd quinone and had to seriously pump the breaks.
Let’s not make more “flipper babies”.
Too bad the politicians can’t be the lab test dummies. “Serve the people!”
5 Likes
Any decent organic chemist can isolate and purify compounds. It’s part of the training.
6 Likes
Still need to know how to test it tho right
I won’t be affiliated with anyone doing any isomers or converted products that doesn’t have good in house and third party
Hence, “is that CBC or D10?”
1 Like
Yes obviously analytics is key but can be outsourced more easily
@anon93688 my point was most traditionally trained organic chemist don’t use methods safe for humans or work compounds up to standard limits for human consumption
Remember that first CBN compared to what’s being made now? Traditionally taught and practiced organic chemists are how you end up with the Iodine paper, a procedure that makes the target compound, but leads a product not safe for ingestion without extra knowledge and skill needed.
The point is any organic chemist won’t get you there, it takes an additional skill set
1 Like
Shura, Sasha, Alexander was a dear friend - he mentioned one of my chemical companies in TiHKAL, in his chapter on a-MT in the extensions and commentary. He absolutely did choose to work with pure compounds over botanical extracts, as botanical extracts were not particularly available to him, except the peyotes on his back deck. But if you look at his book on the isoquinolines, (none of the fun extensions and commentaries), the vast majority of those were isolated from plant extracts obtained from another of our friends at the Buchart Gardens, who sent clippings to him, which he isolated the fractions of and cataloged. In terms of CBD or THC to CBN, similar to how S would have handled synthesis, one would not want to start with Extract, or Distillate, but Isolate, the pure substance instead. And it is much faster and easier to make this from Menthenediol and Olivetol, and a right and proper Lewis acid, under a Noble gas at near cryo temperature, though Olivetol is illegal in California, due to some very old laws that nobody has bothered to revise with the newly licensable and newly legal cannabinoids. I suspect that CBD is not particularly illegal in any of the 50 states currently, and that it is not even possible to get a permit for CBD yet, unless the CBD comes from Cannabis, at least here in California where I live, in which case it is covered by your permits, if you have any… But then, if one is beginning with CBD, the next in the 3 step synthesis is converting it to the direct precursor to CBN. And that would be highly illegal, even with a permit for cannabis, here in California, and federally as well… But the end product, the CBN would NOT be illegal. Go figure. From legal to illegal to legal. But an analysis of the CBN end product will likely reveal the method of manufacture, and that if its origin is other than cannabis from a licensed entity, that somebody was necessarily in possession of very pure THC, at some point, and most likely a lot of it… All that could be told by analysis of the final product, depending upon several factors (easy enough to dope the very pure final product with some full spectrum extract, just a few percent mind you, and that would make it all debatable and create plausible deniability… Except that CBN is arguably psychoactive, and so qualifies under the analog act as a scheduled substance, if there is intent for human consumption… Sasha’s troubles regarding licensing were the result of his not completing an analysis of “samples” sent to him, mostly by “friends” who were curious about the content of this, that or the other tab, or cap, or powder which (typically) had a seemingly anomalous effect, different than the esposed effect if the pill/tab/powder had contained what it was said to contain. But the DEA police were not aware of what the lab in his back yard looked like or whether or not it was a hazard or was hazardous, until they were “inspecting” in his home, as they are allowed to do to licensed entities, just as the state does this to licensees growing and processing cannabis. The inspection turned to raid after a DEA agent found the contents of a cubbyhole in set of cubbies mounted on a wall where his test equipment was, inside his home. And that cubby contained a number of obvious pills and parts of pills and caps, and samples of powders, without much in the way of notes as to the origin or content, but presumably scheduled substances by Shura’s own admissions when the agent quizzed him about these samples… Shura assumed that it was his increasing notoriety and increasingly outspoken diatribe against “the chemical establishment” that got the DEA thinking about him, as did his association with me, after they raided one of my chemical companies. But it had not been determined that the DEA would threaten his license, as they had no idea what kind of order or disorder his lab would be in before they arrived at his home… Just FYI… 
15 Likes
Thank you for the insight
1 Like
I produce CBD isolate for one of the larger production labs in Colorado. There are a few one pot methods to produce CBN from CBD that avoid having THC as a purified product.
Due to the recently passed US Farm bill, the general consensus here is that Cbd and products made from are legal. CBN and the isomers of THC seem to fall under this. Many are very optimistic about it though I still believe it’ll be decided by a judge with not the best outcomes for the first few companies doing it.
Sasha is a true inspiration and was the greatest mind in his field. The substances he created have changed my life countless times, MDMA (aware he did not create first) and 2cb are treasures.
3 Likes
Genuinely made me laugh
1 Like
I’ve never heard of Shulgin until now. What a fucking G.
I hope you make it to the Hawai’i meetup
1 Like
Greetings!
I am not aware of the Hawaii meet up. What is this? I am pretty busy working, getting some newer labs into a truly efficient state. Lots of misconceptions about fractional distillations (I prefer stacking a bunch of 3-way adapters, and not using a heating mantle for much except to bring things up to 140C but instead epoxying “heating tapes” around each of the 3 way adapters and micro adjusting the temperatures of each 3-way adapter, and putting a jacketed cooled flask on each to catch the fractions… I truly can separate CBD and THC to certain appreciable extent this way - but anyway, this old man is rambling - no probably will not be at a meet up, especially in Hawaii, unless it is much later in the year? And then we will see about my health and finances… I work cheaply for good folks who have been previous victims of anti-drug legislation, so these expenses can be a little tough on me! But you have fun, and cheers, and thank you for being understanding, and thank you to all in this forum, the only forum that I am aware of where good chemistry is given freely to inquiring minds! This is where the new innovators will come from - the desire to experiment and improve!
13 Likes
Any chance you’d like to share some more on this?
You know: “pictures or it didn’t happen” sort of thing?
2 Likes
@cyclopath This actually makes alot of sense. I had a similar idea about using fractional condensation after trying out the hot condenser and watching the vapor build up in the cow. My thoughts on it was to hook up condensers in an order of descending temps.
But I think what @Chemphox is saying makes more sense, to push (or pull) the vapors along with a more precise temp control along the vapors path.
I’m not certain, but I’m very interested in this concept.
2 Likes