Hop Latent Viroid

Thanks! I considered something like that, but I worry about affecting water flow because they sit on the tray (rather than raised off the tray a bit). Maybe placing 1/2" PVC lengthwise (parallel to the water flow) under those would work well.

Disagreeing is part of the process bro… :shushing_face:

Suggests to me that If the change in secondary metabolites is caused by the pathogen, calling it a “symptom” would be ok with the author of the above passage

Metabolomics wasn’t a thing, now it is.

That changes how close one needs to look to define asymptotic.

Revisiting the definitions as the science progresses is just how this works.


He acutally says the exact opposite. Granted, he didn’t discuss secondary metabolites (terpenes and cannabinoids), but they are biochemical:

As I noted earlier, the research I have reviewed from this century, the last decade, and the last two years doesn’t list secondary metabolite changes as symptoms. Nor does the effect on secondary metabolites meet the symptom definition in plant pathology. And there are similar examples in medcine, where not all disease effects are symptoms (ground-glass lung in COVID-infected persons).

The most telling aspect is that none of the many studies on HLVd and other viroids and viruses affecting hops and cannabis (or other plants) list the viroid’s effect on terpenes as a symptom. None of them. They all repeatedly mention the effect on terpenes and the disease symptoms, but none of them suggest that the effect (affecting terpenes) is a symptom. And that includes studies from 2021 and 2022.

However, I found one study that suggests significantly reduced alpha acids in hops is a symptom of viroid infection. But it’s important to note that comparing the alpha acid content of an infected plant to that of a non-infected plant is far more straightforward than comparing terpene concentrations (which are not all decreased). Especially considering there are hundreds of terpenes, and their production is more sensitive to a myriad of stressors than alpha acid. So, this study’s use of reduction in AA as a symptom doesn’t apply to the use of terpenes as a symptom (reduction of some and an increase of others). Overall, because this is the only study I found with the use of AA as a symptom, it’s an outlier and probably shouldn’t be given much weight: Characterization of a new viroid strain from hops: evidence for viroid speciation by isolation in different host species

Science also works by accepting when you don’t have evidence supporting your position and abandoning a lost cause. :peace_symbol:

I would be happy to learn I’m wrong.

I’ve been using calcium hypochlorite in my water for over the last year with great results always white clean roots.



I have used chlorine in the past (low pH so it’s mostly hypochlorous acid), as well as chlorine dioxide, which both work as a disinfectant when used appropriately. But they are also oxidizers, so they are not ideal from a root health perspective, although their use is absolutely better than infected roots.


You use Rockwool don’t you? Are you running it through your lines or watering in separately?

I use rockwool and coco, at home I mix it right into my res, at my shop I’ve got a orp controller connected to a dosing pump in my ro reservoir to make sure my water is always sterile.

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Besides your base is there anything else you use?

You mean besides my base nutrients? I don’t want to go off topic but I also use, agt50, kelp, silica, aloe (since I bought a bunch I add in my foliar).

scalpels cut into the cells. its better to break the cells between each cell wall and less shit gets into it.= hippies with dirty fingers plucking is maybe cleaner than scalpels.

If you say so


Uv-c affected our available iron in dwc. Saw an iron deficiency within 4-5 days and it immediately corrected itself after pulling the light


Me too. Means I learned something. Only decent reason for spending time in these meat suits imo.

Once taking a full mRNA expression profile becomes routine when you visit your GP, I suspect more folks will consider specific combinations of misexpressed genes as “symptoms” rather than merely “diagnostic”.

Not there yet?

Willing to concede that for now :shushing_face:

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Use Fe-EDDHA with UV-C.

UV-C causes oxides (like hydroxyl radicals) to form in the nutrient soltuion. The oxides destabilize and degrade Fe chelators, releasing Fe(III) (ferric iron) into the solution. Fe(III) tends to readily react with other compounds in the solution and then precipitate out of the solution.

I use a single pass UV-C, so I see a minor loss of Fe chelation with 50/50 Fe-DTPA/Fe-EDDHA. I would switch to 100% Fe-EDDHA, but Fe-DTPA has some advantages. I’m hedging my bets using a mix of EDDHA and DTPA, even though I doubt I would see a significant loss of chelation if I used 100% Fe-DTPA with a single-pass UV-C. If I used RDCW or other recirc systems, I would go with 25/75 DTPA/EDDHA, or 100% EDDHA.

Recent research found UV-C didn’t affect tested macronutrients, including NO3, K, Ca, Mg, and SO4:


@danielfp wrote two good blog post on this topic:


When using Fe-EDDHA, look for the product with the highest o-o %. I recommend Sprint 138 because it has the highest o,o at 5.2%. Much more on the topic of Fe-EDDHA in my thread here:



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Yeah, apparently the hereditism is different…

“That probably comes from the hereditism that was carried on from breeding. If it had more landrace in it, it might be more resistant,” he said, referring to strains that evolved to thrive in their native environments.

Some phenotypes are definitely resistant but I haven’t seen anything immune.

I was renting a place and couldn’t seem to beat the disease. Due to rent being very expensive i couldn’t afford to take a month off to get rid of every plant and deep clean everything . It wasnt worth loosing money so i moved on. I went from getting 3lbs a light to .5lbs per light with double ended gavitas in a sealed room with co2. It can be a bitch forsure .

We had 60+ lights so it would end up just being a big waste of time and money . Its next to impossible to even source clean clones and even if we did find clean ones we did not have the time to make moms and clone them all out ect . That process would have taken months .

By the time we found “clean clones” it was too late there was some sort or cross contamination from previous grow equipment or they clones were not clean. Other people were doing great with these "clean clones " but they had the typical leaf curl of HPLV and even one had some chlorosis that looked like tobacco mosaic virus . So its hard to say what happened but all i know is im done wasting time and money lol . Im ready to just grow a few lights for some personal and live resin all organic!

Edit - I did clean everything , buy new pots , and sprayed everything down with high strength bleach and still couldn’t seem to get rid of it . I was very thorough with my cleaning with bleach too

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