I am not necessarily adamant about “no waxes or lipids”. i am merely trying to make a successful recipe for suspending/mixing a high terpene full spectrum extract with some form of diluent to have a flowable oil for vapes. one that will not separate after a few weeks.
This one is 1 week old and still no separation.
I use a magnetic stir hot.plate and heat to about 140 and let it stir in a manner that creates a small vortex. Then I fill the cart while it’s hot.
This is thc ethanol extract, extract3d dry ice cold, hand trim, ran thru my tabletop distiller, and purged in vac oven. Mct oil, terps, and ethanol extract only in my elcheapo china $.34 plastic wick cart. Zero seperation, even after 5 weeks of my ppl trying them out, but preferring my distillate carts over ethanol carts.
When i make my carts, i dont have a fancy mixer. Just a 5g solicone container, double boiler on stove top, blunt tip needle to mix and fill.
Ill ask one of my guys to send a pic back.
Awesome information brother do you happen to know the ratio of MCT and terpene you add to the oil on your recipe thank you
I imagine with MCT it would have to be at least one to one maybe even at least 2 to 1 MCT to extract
I made these tester carts about 3 months ago. 8 dont remember my ratios
I think MCT is the solvent i need not PG. im going to give it a try.
stolen from a post on another site by CBDistillery:
We will be releasing a PG/VG version in the future for those who don’t want to vape our triple distilled MCT oil pens. We really dig our new MCT pens though. They are super smooth and maintain great flavor through the life of the pen. I’ve copied in a great read from another thread for ya. Some people ask why we don’t just use terpenes. We don’t like to use just terpenes as a cutting agent because terpenes are a natural solvent and are very harsh in really high doses. I honestly question if inhaling terps in large amounts like that is healthy as well.
"Which MCTs Do We Use? We use the fractionated portions of C:8 and C:10 carbons, or Caprylic Acid and Decanoic Acid
External Links. Caprylic acid - Wikipedia
WONT YOU GET LIPID PNEUMONIA??
No, because MCTs don’t require lipolysis like normal triglycerides- and here is the research to back it up. (inhalation of larger particle sizes other than vapor should still be avoided)
Most dietary fats/oils you consume on a daily basis consist of 97% LCTs(long chain triglycerides), they have very little water solubility and must go through lipolysis-- They require bile salts and other digestive enzymes to help break them down for the body to be able to absorb them. Medium-chain triglycerides: an update | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic
MCTs are highly polar molecules with hydrophilic tendencies which means they are more water soluble than LCTs, They do not require lipolysis – no bile salts or digestive enzymes are required to break them down. They act more like a carbohydrate than a fatty acid and even absorbed as fast as glucose by cell mitochondria. The MCTs first were isolated and used in the 1950’s to treat patients with lipid absorption disorders.
Physical Properties of Fats, Oils, and Emulsifiers Chapter 13, page 220
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/medium-chain-triglycerides-mcts/
Medium-chain triglycerides: an update | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic
MCTs are found in relatively small proportions except in coconut oil, palm oil, and goat milk (also human breast milk), but they are still the minor component in the total fat content of these even. To isolate MCTs, they must be extracted by fractional distillation after putting raw coconut oil through hydrolysis. http://www.parrillo.com/sngdetails.asp?sng=mct&id=1
MCTs are antimicrobial - Nutraceuticals and Speciality Lipids and Their Co-Products page 45 section 2.7 - Those microorganisms that are inactivated are bacteria, yeast, fungi, and enveloped viruses.
Nutraceutical and Specialty Lipids and their Co-Products - Google Books
MCTs behave more like carbohydrates than traditional fats - Nutraceuticals and Speciality Lipids and Their Co-Products page 32.’ The more research I found on MCTs the more they seemed to be something worth looking at and keeping around.
Nutraceutical and Specialty Lipids and their Co-Products - Google Books
John S. Patton, C. Simone Fishburn, and Jeffry G. Weers “The Lungs as a Portal of Entry for Systemic Drug Delivery”, Proceedings of the American Thoracic Society, Vol. 1, NINETEENTH TRANSATLANTIC AIRWAY CONFERENCE (2004), pp. 338-344.
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/pats.200409-049TA#.VaGzTF9Viko
“For other small molecules, inhalation is also a fast way to get into the body because drug efflux transporters and metabolizing enzymes are present in the lung at much lower levels than the gastrointestinal tract. Lipophilic small molecules are absorbed extremely fast, t1/2 (abs) approximately 1 to 2 minutes. Water-soluble small molecules are absorbed rapidly t1/2 (abs) approximately 65 minutes.”
Guess what? MCTs have hydrophilic tendencies and are small molecules.
Small Molecule Drug Absorption “Most small molecules that have some water solubility are rapidly and efficiently absorbed from the lungs. Those that are more hydrophobic are absorbed even more rapidly—within seconds to a few minutes. Those that are more hydrophilic are absorbed within minutes to tens of minutes. Lewis Schanker and colleagues, in a series of papers between 1973 and 1986 (30–45), explored many facets of pulmonary drug absorption in a variety of different animals. They quantitatively analyzed the amount of radiolabeled drug absorbed across the pulmonary epithelium following intratracheal and aerosol delivery and determined the comparative rates of absorption for different classes of compounds. They compared the characteristics between different species, sexes, and ages of animals and determined the effect of various noxious agents that damage epithelia on pulmonary absorption.”
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/pats.200409-049TA#.VaGzTF9Viko
In the process of all this I found a study talking about glycerols effects on lung function. While this study doesn’t mention inhalation, it does shed light on what excess VG might do in your lungs since it is already found there naturally. Also MCTs breakdown into glycerol so this potentially means something for them as well. Not sure but hey it is interesting.
Glycerol-Induced Membrane Stiffening: The Role of Viscous Fluid Adlayers. “we explore the ability of nonionic sugary molecules (i.e., glycerol) to change lipid membrane mechanics. The role played by small sugary molecules in membrane structure has not been fully explored, despite their supposed influence on membrane stability (e.g., anhydrobiosis)” “Lipid interfaces, ranging from cell membranes to thin surfactant layers that stabilize lung alveoli, are integral to living systems. Such interfaces are often subjected to mechanical forces, and because of their membrane-like geometry, they can easily deform by bending into localized folds. In this work, we explore the role of small molecules (i.e., glycerol) on the mechanical stability of model lung surfactant monolayers. We demonstrate that the presence of glycerol increases local monolayer bending stiffness by orders of magnitude. Our x-ray and neutron reflectivity measurements indicate that water is preferentially depleted, or glycerol is preferentially enriched, at the lipid headgroup/solvent interface, and that this glycerol-enriched layer extends beneath the monolayer with an adsorption free energy of −2.5 to −4.6 kJ/mol. The dramatic change in membrane bending stiffness in the presence of the sugar adlayer is understood in terms of two models: 1), lipid antiplasticization by glycerol; and 2), a continuum mechanical model of the viscous adlayer.” Glycerol-Induced Membrane Stiffening: The Role of Viscous Fluid Adlayers - PMC
Alveoli of The Lungs “The behavior of the alveoli is largely dictated by LaPlace’s law and surface tension. It takes some effort to breathe in because these tiny balloons must be inflated, but the elastic recoil of the tiny balloons assists us in the process of exhalation. If the elastic recoil of the alveoli is compromised, as in the case of emphysema, then it is difficult to exhale forcibly…………The remarkable property of the surfactant which coats the alveoli is that it reduces the surface tension by a factor of about 15 so that the 1 mmHg pressure differential is sufficient to inflate the alveoli. Other factors affecting the remarkable efficiency of oxygen transport across the lung membranes is characterized in Fick’s Law.”
Unfortunately, there’s not nearly enough known about the inhalation of this stuff to really know what’s “safe.” I do know using MCT oil as a means to thin your distillate will definitely work, I’ve seen an old cart that got lost from 1.5+ years back and had absolutely no separation.
Distillate is a different beast. ive seen distillate mixtures all working 100% but full spectrum is a different matter. im sure if i was working with disty i wouldnt be having any issues
Strange, the full spectrum oil is always less viscous in my experience. We don’t actually cut with MCT anymore, couple of years, except for one specific product that is marketed as a low potency option.
probably due to the broad spectrum of filtering/dewaxing/scrubbing techniques used on full spectrum extract (essentially winterized crude right)?
Winterized and scrubbed, yeah.
maybe its user error then? my full spectrum decarb’ed and purged oil was basically like hard tree sap consistency
what was your room temp?
do you live where its cold? My htfse pours like honey at 75*f.
You sure you achieved full decarb?
Granted I’m using CO2, but, if I turn a jar on it’s side it’ll move pretty easily, even sans terpenes. I’ve noticed that if crude is heated and cooled without decarb I can make glass-like shatter with a specific fraction.
my basement is typically low to mid 60’s right now.
i believe so. I decarb at 250F for 30 mins based on gray wolf @ skunkresearch findings: Decarboxylation | Skunk Pharm Research
what would define “full decarb”? i typically dont go past 250f for 30 mins. i figure the vape coil heat would decarb any remaining thca.
Do you go untill all the small co2 bubbles dissipear?
You’re right about the coil decarbing it, however, THCA is crystalline, which is why shatter is shatter and oil is oil.
If you’re having viscosity issues then fully decarbing the oil will decrease viscosity… to a point. At some other point you lose all of your highly volatile terpenes (if there were any left to begin with) so you’ll increase viscosity by losing those terpenes.
As mentioned though, fully decarbed oil should move more like somewhat cold molasses.
yes they are basically non existent by the end of 30 mins
i wouldnt doubt if i lost quite a few HV terps on this run which is causing the oil viscosity to be quite high for a decarbed crude. my ghetto Vacuum chamber/oven i jimmy rigged a vibratory machine next to it to vibrate my purge chamber to assist in removal of last bit of etoh. doing so (vac chamber/steel pot placed on a hot plate) caused the heating knob to turn as the day went on and inside temps reached 200F or so…
In my experience, you’ll get some decarb at that temp, but, won’t fully decarb it.
Try it at 275 F for 30 min and see what happens.
