Hi all. I’m not asking for a spoon or anything been researching myself for a couple months. Done two runs so far, pretty deeeecent. Just quick question for those more knowledgeable. How much ethanol should i dissolve the cbd in. I see that a litre can dissolve 22g approx, however some sops seem to suggest you can use 1:1 ratio for rxns. If anyone could explain this too be would be appreciated
If you’re asking this I don’t know what you’re doing running reactions.
5 Likes
I’m competent, can run a reaction safely, I just find conflicting reports in the literature wanted to settle the issue in my mind because im one of those people that chews things over. Thanks for your contribution though really helpful 
As you don’t mention other processing, I infer you are asking how much CBD essential oil (not isolate) will dissolve in a liter of 190 or 200 proof ethanol.
The answer is that they will mix at any ratios. The question is what do you plan to do with the meds.
If used orally, 190 or 200 proof will burn your mouth badly unless diluted with food or drink, so to get it below sipping liquor 80% means you would have 40% ethanol and 60% concentrate or other constituents to get the proof down.
Here is an example of two sublingual oral formulas without alcohol: 9.5.1 Holy Anointing Oil - GrayWolf's Lair
I’m currently working with a batch of QWET essential oil that I’ve dissolved in MCT oil, which is an alternative which doesn’t burn but still tastes like shit.
I have some candy flavoring oil / et al that I will be experimenting with for improving palatability.
3 Likes
Thanks for the response, realise your all very busy and is good info. As an archaeologist that archaeo-propspected oil recipe really is a brilliant read and example of the use past recipes may still be used for modern purposes. Apologies I should have been more specific I meant in the context of reflux with a catalyst present. I assume that one wouldnt want to go over the maximum solubility in order to allow a more efficent reaction between the constitutents, however many sops seem to suggest ratios of solvent to CBD that do not follow this logic, as well as methods I have seen such as the JedClampet Citric teks that even use water as a solvent which as fair as I know is inefficent at dissolving CBD seem to still allow isomerisation. Added to the relative amounts of ehtnaol that must be required by some to produce large amounts seem costly considering the eventual values at which the products are sold so I was just wondering in the context of reflux/isomerisation. Thanks again though
1 Like
Why do you assume this is a factor at all?
1 Like
You know what know ive just tried to right my reasoning down to explain it ive realised it shouldnt affect it at all as it is a carrier for the reaction happening and not a reactant itself and thus should not influence the product as essientially heat , time, and acidic conditions are the primary factors affecting it. Thanks
1 Like
The solvent matters as well.
Ethanol is definetely not a good solvent at all for such kind of reactions. Look up how often it is not employed in many of the papers or sop on this topic… 
3 Likes
Bro, please don’t go fucking around with isomerizations… Your like the 3rd dude in 2 days that has come one here to claim the knowledge of being able to run a reaction, but yet your asking very VERY VERY basic questions that I promise you will find answers to here.
BUT DON’T go fucking with this please. The people don’t deserve what they already have, and apparently someone put out a call to the scientific community to come over here, and start making D8… If you’re going to do it, use a consultant for their SOP’s. You do not currently have the training, and/or abilities to run these reactions unassisted
That’s literally as nice as I can be given the current atmosphere…
1 Like
Cheers for responses. I understand having observed this and honestly it is only my own health with which I would even potentially play with given a mishap in the resulting product so rest assured I’m not some chancer looking to flood places with dangerous things, just sorting out meds for my conditions. Thanks for all responses tho
1 Like
Solubility is heavily dependent on temperature, which is why you probably will never get a definitive answer out of the available teks out there, since they don’t control for temperature oftentimes. Plus, the teks are mostly written in a way so that non-chemistry folks can carry them out, which has worked relatively well up until now, since isomerization wasn’t as big a thing as it is now.
Reaction chemistry is a nuanced process not meant to be taken lightly and what you’re trying to do has much bigger effects on the community and industry than you may realize, regardless of whether you’re the only one directly involved.
2 Likes
If you’re doing this for yourself than I can get onboard. Check this out, and do some reading. There’s many SOP’s up on the site, and this link is only 1 of many: Thank me later Δ8THC via ptsa
1 Like
Thanks mate for actually providing something constructive. Fully appreciate thats why I’m attempting to understand as fully as possible not looking to hurt anyone or anyones buisness just my hobby in a way
You’ve got a lot more reading and subsequent understanding to do.
Unless you’re capable of formulating the recipe, probably best to read it and understand it first.
scholar.google.com is a good resource for searching; most everything you find on these forums were derived from the patents put out by others. These patents explain the process for the reaction in greater detail than you’ll commonly find here.
What is your end goal? D8? D9? Something else?
We can’t give you constructive criticism when there isn’t much foundation to work off of.
1 Like
My end target is essientially a crude with variable amounts of cannabinoids (d8, d9, Cbn etc). The result is purely for edible consumption, so the principle is to reflux cbd suspended with catalyst in ethanol. Afterwards correct PH with magnesium oxide water to 7.3, remove AC in my second attempt with good result (which ive used at 5% as catalyst) via filtration before evaporating solvent then suspending in coconut oil with some letichin. Dunno if i had to decarb but did it just to be safe. I understand concern etc. but on previous attempts ive had good results, great considering im using a findenser air condensor, honestly didnt expect as potent a result as i got. But yeah I am conscious that more good be done on the resultant product such as resuspending in heptane and performing more water washing then evaporation, however I simply don’t have access to that kind of equipment in my current situaton. I am not at any point thinking my personal oil holds a candle to the work of most the minds on this thread and i certainly wouldnt give to anyone else to consume i was just wondering on the ethanol amounts as i am overall happy with the result produced. I know think i understand that with heat the solubility can increase, as too pressure can effect it thus my question of the the amount that may be refluxed in a seemingly illogical (in my understanding at the time) amount of solvent has been solved, however i am open to correction if there is something i have missed
This concerns me.
I’m not going to discourage you from your pursuits, only that I request you continue to build your understanding because what you are doing can be dangerous.
I suggest to you the phosphoric reaction:
1 beaker for phosphoric acid. 23.6g
1 beaker for CBD 20g
1 beaker for isopropyl alcohol with 3a mol sieves. 60ml iso required.
1 beaker for sodium bicarbonate 86.8g, combined isopropyl alcohol to end the reaction
In a beaker add 100ml ethanol, add 5g potassium hydroxide (KOH). You will need disposable pipettes, vials or shot glasses. Add the ethanol/koh solution to the vials/shot glasses/whatever you have. This is the beam test. CBD will interact and turn the solution purple. The clearer the solution, the less the CBD. Your reaction is finished as the solution turns peach/neutral in color. The color of importance is the color seen after apx 5 seconds - color will change as it sits so note it!
Bring iso and CBD to reflux, add phosphoric acid. After 30 minutes, using a disposable pipette, take a sample from your reaction and place it into the beam solution. Repeat test every 15 minutes or so until reaction is complete.
When reaction is complete, add the sodium bicarbonate to iso and pour into reaction vessel. mix thoroughly and remove from heat. Once the mixture has cooled, perform LLE with heptane as follows:
water wash by the following process:
add 60ml dried heptane to sep funnel, add reaction solution (about 60ml), add 60ml DI water. Invert 10 times, releasing gas intermittently.
allow to sit 30 minutes before discarding water layer (this will also contain the iso propyl alcohol)
repeat the above process, allowing 15 minutes before discarding the water layer as follows:
60ml 9ph 10% brine water
60ml 8ph 10% brine water
60ml 7ph 10% brine water, repeat until water wash is clear.
60ml super saturated brine solution
60ml DI water
Allow heptane to evaporate or recover if you can. You should have a fairly clean oil. The drier, the more inert the reaction and process is carried out under, the more the reaction will favor d9. The longer/hotter will favor d8.
4 Likes
Thanks thats a good procedure, explains the spot testing and washing better then most thats available at a glance. Yeah ill definitely give this a look in thanks, assumed AC would be pretty much the same as it is activated with phosphoric but i might be wrong.
Sorry, my mistake. When we isomerized CBD essential oil, we used n-Hexane, not alcohol. It would also work with Pentane or Heptane. https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/10-the-alchemist-resource/10-4-isomerizing