That was a worry of mine.
Once valved and opperated corectly You are fine
I personally have the valves close to coldtrap on a Y for i don t like 90* corners
In My imagination that Gives beter flow
But Y i had to let them weld for they are hard to find
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Can both pumps be operated simultaneously or will one pull oil on its exhaust phase while the other is on compression phase? Since they are not timed or on the same crankshaft
Both can run simultaniously
And that Will make cfm+cfm your cfm
But your vacuum depth Will suffer If one pump pulls a way better vacuum then the other so iT s not pump 1 50 microns and pump 2 10 microns that your vac Will be 30 microns more likely 45 micron average
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Found the answer. For my pump itās a kf25 to male 3/4 NPT adapter.
So is the filter listed in this post better then the one hfs sells?
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the average of the 2 pumps lowest microns is what you will get when both are running. If the differtence is to large than on eiwll pull the others oil out. There is no reason this canāt work for overall cfm
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This setup makes no sense to me. Maybe someone could explain but I donāt see any reason why two pumps would be any better than one.
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If you are distilling with any kind of volatile compounds then youāll need to throttle down the pump to allow the time necessary for the vapor to condense. Too much CFM in this case is bad.
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When you are in your main fraction the CFM is not the indicator you will want to focus on. Instead focus on the overall vacuum depth. This maybe too simplified but if the vacuum pump could not pull fast enough (CFM was too low), then it would not be capable of producing enough vacuum. Therefore if the pump can produce low enough vacuum it has enough CFM.
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Two pumps that are the same size doubles your CFM but does not produce deeper vacuum. It will only cut the time it takes to reach this depth by 1/2
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Two pumps incur twice the upfront cost and wear out/maintain 2x
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If you are going to pull volatiles with a separate pump then you would want separate independent lines for each pump. Otherwise the vapors condense along the path to the fresh pump. You could also buy a $200 harbor freight pump if you are just going to destroy it.
Well i was off the same opinion that there is a certain overkill of cfm but the treuth is i haven t found the tipping point yet
Edwards 2m28 on a 2 liter flask preforms better than a Alcatel 2008a
Way of testing have 2 liters of crude
Split iT in 2 one liter batches
Distill with coldtrap Acetone dryice slurry
And a vacuum data logger inline
Both pumps had same vacuum level after the coldtrap 28 microns(hardest part)
So i set the mantel at start directly to 200C spinbar at 30%(low i know)
And let iT rip
The Edwards was a faster run by 12%
The weight of cannabinoids was 2% in favor of Alcatel
The coldtrap weight was 3% more with the Edwards
The purity cannabinoids was in favor of the Edwards 86%Alcatel 82%
And the vacuum avarage was 37 microns
Lower on the edwards than the Alcatel
So the Edwards clearly did a better job
@Lilibel Maybe knows the dynamics behind this
I was kinda pissed for i liked My Alcatel
Bought her for 50ā¬ second hand did Many runs quiet like Hell and always deep vacuum
Friend of mine is learning with her now
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Just trying to figure iT out
So positive critic here
1 i have a dry ice coltrrap and a savant set 1 pass still get to the pump wether 8 or 28 cfm
We all know of SPD pakkages beeing sold with ridicoulous cfm pumps
The smallest pump Will. Get to full vac iT just takes very very long but your avarage vac level sucks
Having low vacs fast means a steady boiling traject
The mains pump needs way less oil replacement so Yes 2 are more expensive but maintanace is not 2x
I agree with seperate lines i have My valves right behind My coldtraps
And No for 200 $ there are great pumps for sale for volatilles Where.a singel stage
Works yust as Well second hand
And your pump pulls way better with clean oil for the mains
I d say give iT a shot
I really Gives better results especialy with
Hot Condenser tech
This setup makes no sense to me. Maybe someone could explain but I donāt see any reason why two pumps would be any better than one.
- If you are distilling with any kind of volatile compounds then youāll need to throttle down the pump to allow the time necessary for the vapor to condense. Too much CFM in this case is bad.
You would throttle down the same way you would with 1 pump
- When you are in your main fraction the CFM is not the indicator you will want to focus on. Instead focus on the overall vacuum depth. This maybe too simplified but if the vacuum pump could not pull fast enough (CFM was too low), then it would not be capable of producing enough vacuum. Therefore if the pump can produce low enough vacuum it has enough CFM.
If you run a dry test and reach 5 micron but start producing vapor and the pump canāt eat the expanding air fast enough then more CFM would help
- Two pumps that are the same size doubles your CFM but does not produce deeper vacuum. It will only cut the time it takes to reach this depth by 1/2
True and it will also eat more expanding vapor cloud produce by vaporizing the petrochemicals in the boiling flask
- Two pumps incur twice the upfront cost and wear out/maintain 2x
I think we are mainly discussing us cheap bastards using 2x 300 dollar eBay special 2021i pumps versus one big Edwardās e2m28
- If you are going to pull volatiles with a separate pump then you would want separate independent lines for each pump. Otherwise the vapors condense along the path to the fresh pump. You could also buy a $200 harbor freight pump if you are just going to destroy it.
I think the idea here is to mimmick a big pump for cheaper
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In an ideal system the vacuum pump should only be pumping out non condenseable gases, ie CO2 and air from leaks. Any vapors produced by the system should be condensed by the system. If there were no leaks and 100% condensation then the vacuum could in theory be turned off after achieving deep vac. This is not how the real world works so running the pump continuously is needed to maintain vacuum, but it is not doing much. If you look at pump graphs all the different sizes converge at a set vacuum level. They are all ineffective at producing more vacuum so it wonāt matter how many large pumps you connect together, the difference in vacuum they produce is negligible
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i have a GIANT tower of power for stripping alcohol. It has two independant still heads. I will be using one pump per still head as the vacuume line is at the top of each head. Both will have cold traps and neither will be pulling maximum depth.
There are more than one reason to use two pumps. I donāt know for sure that this will help but that alcatelās are cheap enough to giver Ć©r a swirl.
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On what size spd was looking at this set up the other day . What kind vac level do you see with this on a first pass ? Are you running on for volatiles and the second as your main ?
Guess @anon42519203 Could chime in to give his perspective
HĆØ is curently at about 20cfm on the liter
If i check his setup on ig
I would never personally run a setup like that on anything bigger than a 1l short path. I see people on ig use it up to 5l but if I get to 2l I will certainly buy and Edwards 30/28.
My system is a cheap Chinese short path with rubber vac lines. My goal for 2019 is a full wide bore 500ml-1l system and Iāll see how low I can get with these pumps on first and second pass. For now Iāve only ran my short path once. Itās a 500ml Chinese ghetto system which I pieced together. Without oil I got down to 87 micron and first pass never went above 300 micron and main body was around 240
In a perfect world, a vacuum pump would be managing just gasesā¦ but since there is such a huge overlap of gas and vapor between terpenes, solvent, water, co2 and the likeā¦ the pumps are there to manage that. As well as everything has a vapor pressure that it is constantly trying to maintainā¦ the constant siphon of pumps is necessary to make the run happen quickly and consistently. As well as with traveling gas comes momentumā¦ momentum drives vapor futherā¦ in a perfect world yes we would trap all vapor before the pump but for that to happen we would need like 10+ trapsā¦ as well as the system would not be as responsiveā¦ a rotary vane can trap much faster then a dry ice trapā¦ and yes i called a pump a trap. I use 100+ cfm on my 20L currently up until heads fractionā¦ the key is to know what vac depth to use for all thisā¦
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The only time i have seen too much cfm is in an overfull 20L with 2 sogevacs running, they actually can outpace the boil off and cause a muffin due to rapid coolingā¦ the peak cfm that is turn key safe is somewhere around 70 cfm on a 20L overfull (14L) based on my valve settings on the pumps during the runā¦ but 100Cfm if managed with valves is very handy when trying to break the decarb state quickly.
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Btw, rarely the case, but in distillation, 2 heads are rarely better then one when you calculate all the specifics of such practice
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I would imagine so! Thanks for your insight buddy
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Ive done it with 2alcatel 2021i and honestysisnt notice much if a difference. Borh pumps were equal in performance by rbemself, when i would open the calve for the 2nd it wiuld fo down a few microns maybe but nothing to write gome about. Disnt notice any difference in speed per liter sobi stopped. Fonna be doing it with sone Edwards i have just ro see again for myself. People obviously are uaving success so this is just my 2 cents