Delta 9 into Delta 8

distillation

#21

T5 is marketed as a filtration aid. Will it behave as a neutral version of T41 (minus carbon), sort of. T5 is the most simple and straight forward bleaching clay. We sell it as a filtration aid because it has been designed to filter faster than normal clays and less prone to clogging, while still having the bleaching clay absorptive properties.

If you want to play with a neutral clay that acts more like T41 then I would suggest Summit Research’s Achromatizing Clay. It is similar to T5 but much more refined and lower in intercalated moisture.


#22

Carbon Chem does not use the words Catalytic or Catalysis in marketing. I use the term in convo, incorrectly apparently, due to its ability to effect conversion without itself being modified by the reaction.

Your oversight is appreciated. Normally it is @Photon_noir describing how my dialog is retarded.

Cheers.


#23

Okay, I am busy so haven’t read the entire thread of comments, so please forgive me for repetition of anything others have already stated.
@Shadownaught I have never considered you retarded! I apologize if my words come off as such! Clay can and will act as a catalyst in the right conditions, so saying as much is not wrong! However, sometimes the clay itself is a catalyst “support”, meaning the acid in it does the catalysis, but the clay improves its reactivity, namely by enhancing surface area and “assisting” the active protons in interacting with molecules.

@FranzVon Clay can be a lewis acid on its own, even when “neutral” in terms of adsorbed or intercalated ions. However, to turn Δ9 or CBD into Δ8, you only need a common Brönstead acid… preferably one with a solubility coefficient allowing it to be easily washed out of your non-polar solution of resin in an aqueous partition, afterward… so like sulfuric, p-tosic, HCl, etc. Pure Lewis-only acids are very tricky to use, but they are only for isomerization of CBD to Δ9.


#24

Hello everyone. I gave the Cbleach a shot. Here is my procedure and results. Excuse my lack of scientific formality.

1.) Transferred 10.0g of distillate into rbf
2.) Under vacuum warmed distillate to 100C
3.) Released vacuum and added 1.2g of Cbleach into rbf
4.) Applied light vacuum and let solution in rbf reach 120C (took 6 minutes)
5.) Maintained temperature (120C-140) for 15 minutes under light vacuum
6.) After 15 minutes I applied stage 2 vacuum and solution started to bubble/froth
7.) After 5-10 minutes bubbling stopped and full vacuum was applied
8.) Distilled product at 190C-200C (with Cbleach in boiling flask)

This yielded 8.8g of the same color distillate that I started with. I don’t have access to labs with detla 8 standards so I cant tell if the delta 9 isomerized to delta 8 but color indicates that it didn’t.

Does anyone know what I did wrong? @ColumboLabs any suggestions/corrections would be greatly appreciated. I plan to try this again soon.


#25

Thank you for your reply. I believe you mentioned that p-tosic could be used as a catalyst for thc acetate is well. Looks like I need to get my hands on some. I also eventually plan to try my hand in converting CBD to delta 8 or 9.


#26

Both are colorless. I believe they have very similar spectrum. I would not accept “no color change” as evidence of “no reaction”. I don’t believe you should either.

Not sure why you would attempt the reaction if you had no way to tell the product from your starting material. Except maybe by bioassay?

It is possible to tell them apart by TLC.

There’s links to TLC kits etc in the in house analytics thread.


#27

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by “Both are colorless”? I know the yellow pigment is an impurity but I thought it would be removed by the Cbleach in the boiling flask. I expected detla 8 to be translucent as shown by the photos @ColumboLabs included above. Maybe I misunderstood?

Your correct in saying that besides color change there is no way to tell if the reaction took place or now without analytics or TLC. I will give the bioassay a try.


Wiped Film vs Short Path
#28

I mean that to my knowledge, there is no intrinsic color difference in the visual spectrum between Δ8 and & Δ9 THC.

I can’t find the link in the data-dump, but there was a paper (or book) in there that gave the spectral properties of a bunch of cannabinoids.


#29

@FranzVon Are you talking about a colorimetric reactive test, such as the alkaline beam test for CBD?


#30

Can cbleach be used in small amounts in the flask without converting to D8 or is that what cbleach is made to do?


#31

Im getting resistance from coworkers on using 2% bleach in the load to speed things up and clear things up but where does the converstion actually happen?


#32

The conversion happens over time in the flask. Any absorbent in the flask whether it’s c bleach, carbon, or another clay will cause isomerization. C bleach is meant to destroy pesticides, thats its intended use. Thats why c bleach is acid activated.


#33

The acidity of the c-bleach and the heat of distillation causes isomerization.


#34

carbon seeping through in filtering would cause green distillate, correct? not the cbleach? @Soxhlet


#35

Green you say? Ph can do weird things to color, I have seen blues form, but only in fractions. You may be co distiling some fractions by not allowing them to come off induvidually.


#36

Green happens first pass prior to your thc fraction OR it happens second pass when you dont fully burp azulene all the way and you go into your THC fraction. Azulene only happens with something in the flask (blue azulene + yelllow distillate will look green )


#37

1st pass was dark emerald green, not some of it like when the azulene is still present, the entire pass came out dark emerald green… i feel like black carbon spread thin in distillate would be green, maybe ? @Kingofthekush420


#38

ive been suggesting its a ph issue but of course i got looked at like a crazy person for saying it. :expressionless: @Soxhlet


#39

What size system you running? If youre not packing your head when using an absorbant you very well could be getting something in there


#40

Unless you’re washing you wax with water you shouldnt have a ph issue