Cup-30 is on the way. Is denatured alcohol (with heptane) an acceptable solvent to use or do we need to stick with pure food grade?
Search function is very helpful for these types of questions!
First result:
Lots of information on this topic!
1 Like
There’s a reason companies like @MileHighLabs use isopropanol. If you are going to use denatured, why not just use a pure solvent that works just as well as ethanol at -40C
Heptane affects distillation, straight up. You will always see it on a vac gauge.
This opinion is in the minority for sure but I’m really against heptane denatured ethanol
3 Likes
Using denatured alcohol is silly
Just run methanol or isopropyl if you’re high volume and looking to save money on solvent
Elaborate on your need for food grade…
Need a consult?
2 Likes
@cavecountrycbd, I actually agree with @Dabatronicus and @Apothecary36 regarding isopropanol for large scale cold extraction. Until cannabis is completely legalized, it doesn’t look like the government is ever going to issue the special use permits required for cannabis processors to get potable ethanol without the exorbitant taxes or to use S.D.A. Isopropanol is the safest choice, especially at large scale, since methanol is so toxic upon even the minimal chronic exposure that would be inherent to processing with it… unless maybe you’re an alcoholic or daily drinker of ethanol to clear it from your system.
4 Likes
Sounds like we should be opening a methanol extraction facility and have it staffed by a bunch of drunks!!
3 Likes
This is not true
I can reach the same depths when distilling no matter what solvent is used
It all comes down to the terpene strip
4 Likes
I’m not saying it’s not possible but its always there.
Normal distillation on wf is usually 2-8 micron, heptane denatured will usually sit right around 12-15. Not huge but it’s there. Much more noticeable on a short path though
2 Likes
Then I guess my question is if you were using a cup-30 what solvent would you use? We will be running a permacool so should be around -40 if that affects decision
Use isopropyl
190 proof ethanol is at its limit for water capacity meaning once you use it once its extraction efficiency goes down because it absorbs water from the biomass
Dont pay for 190 proof ethanol when iso works better and is cheaper
3 Likes
Iso is what I started extracting with over 15 years ago now and have always been super attached to it.
I’m happy to see it getting used more.
It never made sense to use the heptane denatured when iso does the job well. I told 710 spirits this when they first popped up and they’ve never liked me since lol
2 Likes
They should make ethanol denatured with iso…
I guess theres certain federal requirements for what’s considered “denatured”
Idk iso works better than ethanol IMO
Maybe because of the polarity?
Its weird because I told my buddy to switch from 190 proof to iso and he got less sugars (probably because no water) and a better color at the same temp
3 Likes
They really should, I think it has something to do with it’s not toxic enough or too easy to separate to be considered “denatured”
I also do agree though, I’ve always seen a better extract with iso then ethanol other then a handful of examples
We pull no waxes at -40C with isopropanol, using a jacketed centrifuge, Have seen people pull lipids at that temp in nonjacketed centrifuge due to heat gain of spinning
1 Like
This is what you guys are talking about?
1 Like
Yes, that price is extremely high though
price is hella better compared to ethanol with the tax and all… That was just the first site that popped up for me to link. Im sure there are better deals to be had.
Yes, and they do make S.D.A. (special use permit required) with isopropanol. See the link to the “TBB formulary” CFR page I posted above.
I am personally almost convinced isopropanol is the way to go, too. However, it does still pick up water, especially in cold extractions, and their azeotrope is 12.3% w/w (9% v/v) water, so normal distillation is not likely to “reproof” effectively.
Luckily, it is a fairly weak azeotrope, so vacuum distillation may work to break it, or at least some of it. Thanks to Beaker’s reminder, rest his soul, I can also remind others that it breaks by simply adding table salt (NaCl) to it!
Strangely, even the full 12.3% water azeotrope is still sufficiently non-polar enough to dissolve some vegetable oil at low temperature, so it might be just fine as is for resin extraction!
Here’s the image I posted before, as a reminder:
6 Likes
We were talking about this before there’s a whole list somewhere in the lavender denatured thread I think @rowan was looking into
1 Like
We can definitely beat most others pricing on the isopropyl as well as ethanol so give us a call.
We would love to help provide ethanol denatured with 4.2%(I believe this is the % needed for ethanol to be considered denatured) isopropyl instead of the nheptane, but as it was pointed out isopropanol requires an SDA permit. There’s 99% USP NF isopropyl and 99% NON USP NF isopropyl. Confirm please, does the NON USP NF isopropyl require an SDA permit? If not, would it be a better denaturant since it picks up less water AND would help avoid the $26.86/gallon excise tax on the 190+ proof ethanol?