Corken T-91 (recover 6lbs a minute)

CannaBusiness
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Is he really boiling them off though?

He’s maybe seeing an elevated rate of evaporation, but I wouldn’t call it boil off.

@Flapjack this is an interesting point.

First of all here are some normal (room temp, atmospheric pressure) boiling points for some common monoterpenoids, the lightest boilers in cannabis oil.

  1. Myrcene= 332F (167C)
  2. Limonene=349F (176C)
  3. Pinene= 312F (156C)

If Roguelab has his final collection pot at 40C (104F) do you really think he is doing much thermal damage to these compounds that have such relatively high BP’s in the short time he has the oil is in the pot? I doubt it.

Not to mention as Flapjack says, if the pot is under pressure the BP’s of the monoterps will be higher as well.

Even if oil should reach our dreaded 150-160F mentioned earlier, you’re not even half way to the BP’s of these compounds at STP (standard temp and pressure). If you have a pot under 30-50 psig you’re probably even safer because the BPs will be higher.

They will definitely volatilize faster at higher temps but it’s not some kind of full-scale boil off.

If you think about it, on a hot day in a green house temps can easily get up to 110F+ for a good part of the day for multiple days in a row. And that’s with all the oil basically micro encapsulated in the trichome with maximum surface area exposed to the heat. I would think conditions like that would cause severe damage to the oil if it was as sensitive as we’re making it out to be here IMO.

I get it that we’re trying to be as careful as possible during extraction but I don’t think a short time at temps close to 100F (or even 150F for very short times) in the collection pot will cause much noticeable degradation. I’m not saying its a great idea to keep your oil at those temps, I would avoid it, but I don’t think it’s a detrimental as most people think.

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Intersting read
As a result I will do a test blast a few tubes in one collection pot shake and stir this pot
And seperate a equal amount over 2 pots
Evap it off at 25C one pot and 70 C the other get a terp readout on. The both of them numbers don t ly
The lab report will take some time but we will get answers

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Thanks for reading, I know I write a lot sometimes.

I look forward to the tests.

I love sorting all this kind of stuff out with you guys all across the world.

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At 1-1.5#/minute are you seeing a constantly rising pressure in your collection pot?

If not then the limiting factor of your recovery rate is your vapor generation not the MVP. If you were at 1-1.5#/min with an acceptable level of heat on your pot and your pressure was always rising that means you’re producing more vapor pressure than the pump can handle.

MVP is one of my least favorite companies out there. They really over promised and under delivered.

I don’t think any of their vapor pumps are really close to the capacity that they advertise and they were/are very malicious in telling people that their pump will magically produce a certain recovery rate.

There has been a “vacuum” in the small/medium recovery pump option sector for several years. People were really wanting something to fill that void and lots of people lined up with dollars in hand to pay MVP. I’m sure they have a very healthy profit margin built into those pumps.

I have heard the MVP’s running and I agree that the noise is laughable, especially if you’re running two or more. I would not buy one based on that alone. I think they could have done something about the noise but I’ll bet they just took an off-the-shelf pump from Graco, mounted it and sold it at a huge profit margin.

For what it’s worth, my Corken T291 is very quiet. It makes a clicking noise like a big sewing machine. The high pitched fan noise from the VFD controlling it is the loudest thing in my shop. Ear protection is definitely not necessary with the Corken.

I agree with these statements.

As you scale up into the 150-250 lbs of solvent range I think keeping the entire mass of solvent at or near 0psi for a passive system becomes more difficult and really doesn’t make that much sense to me.

Why would you want to cool all 150+ lbs of solvent and have to maintain it at that temp when you can keep most of it warm using an active system and just spot cool it before injection? Then as a bonus you have usable pressure in your solvent tank to move liquid and don’t need vapor assist.

Passive makes the most sense to me for smaller scale. Nothing wrong with that and that’s just my personal opinion.

I’m not sure if you made a typo or not but earlier we were discussing taking the collection pot heat up to 150F not C. I agree that 150C would be crazy high and unnecessary.

I’m not sure you’re right about what happens at the boundary layer. I don’t think any superheating takes place there. Superheating is when a liquid is heated to a temp higher than its BP without actually boiling.

The difference between latent and sensible heat can be confusing and I know it’s intuitive to think some of the liquid must be heated up to 150F (or whatever it’s set at) while the solution is boiling, but it isn’t.

I think the liquid in the collection pot will always boil at the temp which corresponds to the pressure in the vessel. If the heat is turned up more vapor will be generated at a temp that tracks with any change in pressure.

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From experience I have observed that
Solutions in example water or alcohols will scouch the inside of the vessel far easyier than solutions based on alkanes
Example take a hydrocloric salt solution and boil it of where the burner is set you will have a black burned spot in the vessel do this with a base not the salt version of your compound and it won’t happen
Never looked into the why but it’s likely with the termo dynamic property’s of the solvent

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pesky sugars

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I do. Lol.

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Me to and the damn thing never rings :joy:
It s my dedicated future forum phone
Old and cracked but never leave home without it

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What are you condensing the vapor with on that corken? What numbers are you hitting?

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I agree with you on pretty much everything. My pressure is not rising, and you are correct that available heat is my limiting factor.

I only have 1.9kW of heat rating. At 75% efficiency I’m not even close to the heat I need to generate—but I also don’t have city water in my facility…I’m on a well.

150C was a typo, I meant 150F.

Also, I’m still fairly certain that there are degrees of super heat. In fact, superheat does not exclusively belong to the liquid phase (think super heated steam)—it is fairly evident that the gas leaving a collection pot is above its boiling point temperature.

One could make the argument that all the gas that is liberated from the collection vessel is superheated. The degree of super heat is a direct function of To (temperature of the heating fluid), do (thickness of the vessel between heating fluid and collection vessel contents), k (thermal conductivity), h (convective heat transfer coefficient).

Given that the gas in the system is superheated, it makes sense that an over application of heat at high temperatures will result in superheated gasses that reach temperatures in the range at or near the temperature of the interior wall of the vessel.

The boundary layer in this case is an approximation, because the flow of the gas along the walls is turbulent. But I’d bet my C in thermodynamics wasn’t all for naught.

0.02¢

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is there anyone out there running a “bigger” Corken model other then the T91s/T291s? anyone with a 491?

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Yes i run a 491

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@Roguelab what recovery rate do you see with a the 491 model with the set up you explained

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Why not just use membranes and call it a day?

No heating or chilling needed

You can easily build a skid that can recover more solvent per minutes then any recovery pump on the market, or even passive

And at a fraction of the electricity costs

@Dred_pirate will most likely get the first skid i build since he’s the homie and wants to help with R and D

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I still haven’t seen any evidence that this method produces anything besides something comparable to distillate. Can it yield diamonds and sauce?

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Why wouldn’t it be able to?

Thc a is thc a

You can use a membrane to get down to 2:1 ratio of solvent to cannabinoids which is perfect for crashing

The benefit of membranes is no heat so no terpenes are lost and a ton of power savings since you’re not evaporating

Throw in some winterization membranes and like you said your warm extracted crude will look like disty

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I’m not saying it’s not possible, just that I haven’t seen anything but distillate type material made with it. I mostly understand the dynamics of the process, I’m excited to see the full range of capabilities.

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@Kingofthekush420 What pressures are required to get hydrocarbons through one of these membranes ?

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Depends on the membrane

The ones im running run at 600-1000 psi

This is good for terpene retention as pressure raises boiling points

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who makes membranes that are operational with hydrocarbons?