Damn your bottom line being affected that much? I know i would never buy one of the expensive discs because they are straight up rape price.
So know you would have never had my money anyways and im sure alot of people feel the same. So until you come in here with some real evidence im standing by they are all equal with one being cheaper. Even the expensive ones suck and break sooo what are you going to say
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Did you not see the davids glass thread where spdking got barrated for talking the same nonsense as you?
This isnt going to go in your favor. Just saying
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@GreenMachine_Consult I’m nearby a few cities up, where at in Murrieta? I’d like to come check out yer shop
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McDonald’s and these things are not a good comparison, bad example. We’re talking about two items that are supposed to be equal.
So far from what I’ve read is that the issue is it feels like the prices being asked for usa made crc’s is excessive. It feels like there been a green tax added, which is shady. High end margins for a manufacture are about 35%, I may be wrong, but it feels like there’s a larger margin on these.
Now, if the Chinese item works just as well as a USA made one, all politics and rhetoric aside, why would I as an end user buy one that is more than twice as much?
Mind you, I’m not a buyer for any yet. Just asking for the sake of the thread.
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I thought i was doing everyone a favor. I dont think many people saw the price that cema quoted the forum which was higher than nboler and indofab. I see xtractor depot is charging $700 for these filter plates.
I bought a lot of these to make sure there was a clear cut price difference between “china boof filters” and american ones.
I was trying to reduce the green tax. I dont think you know how expensive these are and the margins on these. I could have charged $500 and still been way cheaper. I charge a flat margin on all my products. Its not very hard to figure it out. Its the same margin on practically everything i sell. I dont watch the market or the prices of my competitors. I pay a certain price. Tack on my margin which i think is fair for these risks and sell it. I dont base my prices on the market or competitors. That is why my prices can look insane sometimes.
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That’s why you’re appreciated killa.
You are asking a fair price for all of your items.
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“Stealing patents”. 
Sorry, but if you can’t compete in a globalized market by being first to the market with your innovation and instead try to rely on bullshit intelectual property laws to protect your obscene margins, you deserve to be undercut and put under by competitors offering an identical product at a lower price. That’s the free market for you.
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I really don’t mean to pick a fight with you but what you mentioned is the complete opposite of a free market, you just mentioned a criminal act against any individual and attack on intellectual property rights within a free market. Sorry really not trying to fight with anyone. I just think you could have said “it’s okay to be shady” with more resolve and honesty.
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t all these spinners that people are re-branding as their own all coming from China? Along with other pieces of equipment???
China does have a bad rep but that does not mean all their products are garbage. You don’t become the manufacturing hub of the world by putting out crap products. There’s a good documentary on Netflix called “American factory” that shines a light on how hard they go. Made me rethink everything I know about China. But fuck their authoritarian government…that part I have not changed my mind about.
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“Intelectual property rights” are a farce. They are simply a way for larger companies to establish artificial barriers to entry of the marketplace and use the state as an enforcement arm to protect their profits. None of us come up with ideas in a vacuum and none of us are entitled to a monopoly on our ideas.
Also, criminal does not equal immoral. I’m sure you can think of plenty of “crimes” you can be thrown in a cage for that have no victim. I mean, 60 years ago it was a crime for a black individual to sit in the front of a public bus. But was that immoral? I believe it’s shady and scummy to hide behind government enforced patents to protect your profits rather than competing in an open and free market. Sometimes it’s the laws themselves that are immoral. I believe IP laws in this country are just that.
If someone is making a product that really is better quality than a competitor, they should be able to justify their higher price by making an appeal to quality and allowing the market to decide for themselves. Not bitching about how their competitor infringed on their IP. That just makes it sound like the manufacturer is sore about not being able to utilize the government to protect their profits.
In a true free market, the spoils go to those who can offer the best goods or services at the best price. The advantage of innovation is being first to the market. IP shits all over that idea and protects greedy actors.
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That’s the thing. When you buy it from an American company that got it from China, the American company is liable for a faulty product. They’re still trying to compete with the sellers overseas selling it for dirt cheap so the only way they can sell it for a higher price is by having a good reputation. If they pull the same shenanigans that foreign sellers do, it’s on them. Bad reputation quickly results in no income. If it contains dangerous materials or breaks on the spot, you can hold them accountable. The importer is responsible for ensuring it is safe to distribute in the US when they accept it from a foreign country.
The guys on here buying equipment from China and marking it up so they can pay to feed their kids and put a roof over their head are taking those risks so you don’t have to. They are vetting the quality of the materials before it gets to you. If it comes from China and gets broken in transit (common), they can’t resell it. That comes out of their pocket, not yours. If it’s a piece of garbage that doesn’t work, they have to refund you or else they risk being able to even process payments. They lose their reputation and before long, their business. Especially when it comes to something as potentially dangerous as extraction equipment, you want the liability to remain in your jurisdiction. If a seller in China gets their reputation ruined, they can just create a new account and customers will still flock right back to them because their prices are so low. The guys on here don’t have that luxury. They burn one person and the whole forum knows about it.
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My point still stands: China does have quality manufacturing. You just have to vet it out, but it’s defiantly there.
Also, the rest of your post is a giant over exaggeration. These guys that are re-branding Chinese equipment as their own already flew to China and vetted out the manufacturers. The horror stories you’re spinning of all the risks they’re taking is if they were to buy from random Chinese companies. Sure, if you do that you will at some point run into the horror stories of damaged equipment or get an entire container of lemons. However, they are working with the good manufacturers because they do exist. Also these companies do offer warranty, again the good ones.
And you’re also forgetting that China is EXTREMELY competitive, so if they burn their clients and re-brand, they also lose their customers to the competition. In all my years of working with different manufacturers, I have never had my ass kissed so hard like the China companies do. Anytime things would get damaged in transit they always replaced the items. Anytime we needed to activate the warranty they did so no problem. We never had these issues because we did our due diligence and work with reputable companies. But to pretend that working with ANY China company is like spinning a revolver? I can’t agree.
I always get a good laugh at how hard the Future4200 community LOVES to shit on China but at the end of the day, China is their bread and butter…lol
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why don’t American companies lower the prices. ie, Delta cup 30 is over $120,000. There’s no IP in cup 30. FFE, wiped film… almost everything we use in this industry is low tech without IP. Yet it’s price like rocket science.
Can’t wait for Chinese to get PSI. Somebody needs to put an end to those prices. I like to buy American. But for $120,000?
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This Is the dumbest shit I ever heard. For one,
It stops people from bashing your skull in with a bat because you jacked their invention.
Trying to raise up a civilized society so we don’t have to just kill and eat and defend all day.
Number two, who the hell would invent things if there’s no protection — better to get a job at UPS.
Sure, theirs corporate abuse, but you’re egregious to say that patents are BS.
And they do eventually expire.
Maybe in socialist Venezuela that’s the program but in capitalism, it’s protected and thus promoted.
Almost everyone would just wait for someone else to make something better (like the ripoff artists) or it would never be shared or brought to market like the coca-cola formula.
So you’re point is trash hombre.
But I get it, ya big companies suck and what not.
Third, no big company would pay engineers
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Should music be open source?
Should brand names be free to copy??
I can make a Ford truck with differnet Rims?
I mean how far into stupid does this go?
Maybe start selling football jerseys on the corner just get the ole sewing shop running in Bali and open a bootleg Versace store in my neighborhood.
Tom Ford would be stoked
Big business would really rip everyone apart.
The small time inventor would be completely doomed!!!
Just like big pharma did
So ya, actually patents are the best for the little guy
Let me break this down for you
“Intelectual property rights” are a farce. They are simply a way for larger companies to establish artificial barriers to entry of the marketplace and use the state as an enforcement arm to protect their profits. None of us come up with ideas in a vacuum and none of us are entitled to a monopoly on our ideas.
**Intellectual property rights are not a farse. Infact the uspto was created because theft of intellectual property rights and rules set forth with laws and provisions to protect people from damages by unsavory individuals who are commiting such acts; these protections were made to help people secure thier ip. Ip rights exist becusee this was a problem. Fact - almost all ideas come from a vacuum, or else it would have been designed already. In fact the cost can take up to a decade to make up with map pricing and msrp sales even said then profit comes later after a release and recouping. This is a fact and I suggest you attend your local business class at community college to gain a greater understanding of of how these products and such are brought to market(you can’t just bring something to market for nothing). Even if similar ideas are in existence most intellectual property is deemed unique and novel to be granted permission to enforce your right to collect damages from theft of ip(getting a patent). You can’t get a fake patent. You have to factually demonstrate it wasn’t obvious and it was novel and never done before. This means the idea was generated from a vacuum. **
Also, criminal does not equal immoral. I’m sure you can think of plenty of “crimes” you can be thrown in a cage for that have no victim. I mean, 60 years ago it was a crime for a black individual to sit in the front of a public bus. But was that immoral? I believe it’s shady and scummy to hide behind government enforced patents to protect your profits rather than competing in an open and free market. Sometimes it’s the laws themselves that are immoral. I believe IP laws in this country are just that.
I am shocked you compared or even remotely tried to compare something racist and violently repulsive to the act of unethical people practicing theft and making excuses or reasoning why it would be so. What I’m saying is this is a Moot and inappropriate point to argue. Definition in play yes it is criminal to steal and profit from people’s secured and valid patented technology. In fact it’s so bad that your opinion doesnt matter in relation to thinking in 20 or 40 years somehow corporate or private patent owners would have no protections and somehow be looked upon the same way as racists. This is a vile argument.
If someone is making a product that really is better quality than a competitor, they should be able to justify their higher price by making an appeal to quality and allowing the market to decide for themselves. Not bitching about how their competitor infringed on their IP. That just makes it sound like the manufacturer is sore about not being able to utilize the government to protect their profits.
I don’t think even you know what you’re saying here.
In a true free market, the spoils go to those who can offer the best goods or services at the best price. The advantage of innovation is being first to the market. IP shits all over that idea and protects greedy actors.
**In a true free market in a society we live in what you said is inaccurate. I suggest you take some business classes and understand what free market means. I suggest you trully educate yourself in the black and white relation of patent laws, and intellectual property protections to owners who who secure thier inventions or work. You’ve expressed your opinion. None of wich is factually accurate and more or less is a understanding of everyonew impression of you that you are jealous people have worked hard to create stuff and legally secure futures for thier staff family and other affiliated manufactures and peers they work with. Your argument wouldn’t hold up in court, and even if you ever practiced what you preached you would have too much to lose. Why don’t you stick to facts and how the world revolves around you every day. **
It’s easier for you to say. “I don’t care for hard working people or companies. Let that guy do all the work and I’m going to reap the benefits. Screw him. That jack ass has to pay insurance and bonds and liability and lawyers to make his business rotate and I’m going to literally bone that mfer and then give him shit after becusee at the end of the day I hide my cash and also, fuck the gov, I’m not claiming what I made this year. And back to that guy, fuck him and his success. It’s my turn to shine and I’m going to play dirty.”
**The spoils go to the people who make it happen. People who do things the right way for the right reasons. **
We would all respect you more if you were just a bit more honest.
I’m sorry to anyone who had to read this mumbo jumbo. I don’t know how to use this site. I bolded my responces.
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A true free market would have no government intervention in the economy. IP rights are thus not free market, because they rely on the fact that you can file a suit to the government and get them to force the IP thief to stop and pay up. Now is that bad? I don’t think so. I’m not in favor of a totally free market. I like some regulation.
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You’re rambling at this point. If I was in your shoes, I’d probably be upset too. I’d also be completely aware that this was inevitable at your price. If you’re price was more reasonable, we all would have flocked to indofabs and bought one first thing and you could have remained the sole guy making these. I’d easily have paid you twice what I paid @Killa12345, but not six times the cost. what did you expect to happen?
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