Closed-Loop Alcohol Extraction on a Budget

We’re a small CBD hemp outdoor grow operation near Green Bay Wisconsin that are considering setting up a very small alcohol extraction facility (5-10lbs/day). While we understand that folks at this size often use dry ice to cool their alcohol and run their extract through a Panda spin dryer, we don’t see this as a viable long-term solution. Our expectation is that, in short order, Wisconsin regulations will be similar to states like Oregon and Colorado that require “closed-loop” systems.

Our hope it to cold (-40C) alcohol extract our own organic CBD hemp that is then run through a RotoVap to produce a crude somewhere between Rick Simpson Oil (RSO) and a Short Path Distillate. I understand that this probably sounds a bit odd but we believe in the “entourage effect” – in leaving in as many plant constituents as possible. Having been through a heavy-duty illness, it is our understanding that there is a need for a super clean product – some people are just really sensitive to toxins that are often found in cannabis products. You can get a sense of what we’re about at Organic Entourage and Biotoxin Journey.

In terms of scale, it’s just my wife and I looking to produce a high CBD, full spectrum oil at a fair price while being able to make a modest income and help folks that could benefit from this type of product. It’s never going to be much more than the two of us and the farm family we’re working with. Not surprisingly, we’re on a very small budget - especially in comparison with the sorts of head-spinning numbers I’ve seen kicked around.

So I’ve been mulling over the least expensive way to build a small setup. Right now, it seems like there are no other closed-loop options other than “CUP” extractors – glorified stainless washing machines. I’ve seen some on Alibaba for under $2,000. To me, this seems like overkill for our needs, not to mention expensive. Squid mentioned using jacketed tanks and columns using CO2 or nitrogen assist but I couldn’t find a good explanation of this approach. This sounds like a simpler extraction solution that could be closed-loop.

After extraction, I can see being able to keep the system closed using a RotoVap. For example, it’s my understanding that alcohol extract can be pulled into the RotoVap from the extractor discharge tank, evaporated, and that the alcohol can then be drained from the RotoVap receiving flask into an the empty portable canister for reuse in the closed extractor. Given the small quantities, I’m envisioning simply lifting the re-filled alcohol canister from the RotoVap onto a higher platform where it can gravity feed into the extractor to start the cycle over again.

Is what we’re trying to do even possible on a budget of 10K or less? Is there someone that others can recommend that can help us understand how this could be done and for how much? I know Good Life Gang provides advice but I wasn’t sure if they worked on this small of scale. Any recommendations for consultants or better ways to set up this small operation would be appreciated.

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Buy a small amount of processed product and see if you can even sell it first.

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MrRandy, that’s sound advice. I have to say that even if we can’t find a market, myself, friends, and family could all benefit. I’ve tried various CBD products and to date, they’ve had no effect or caused a bad reaction. Given the need within my small circle, and not wanting authorities knocking at my door because I’m running an illegal operation, I want to at least figure out what’s possible. Maybe I’m just dreaming but my family suffers so and I’m looking for a way to help. Having said this, making up a small amount of product open-air in a cheap distiller to see if my family benefits makes sense.

@GreenMachine_Consult @cyclopath

This guy could mod a cls for a nitrogen assisted etoh extraction care to spoon feed this guy

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Yeah, you can do it “closed loop” for less on the order of $10k on that scale. Although ditching dry ice might have to be an “upgrade” performed down the line.

All you need is a used hydrocarbon rig with a chiller, heater, and recovery pump. You can substitute a vacuum pump for the recovery pump as you don’t need to pull the solvent through the pump.

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Hey there

I’m currently on the west coast but have a lab up in Door County and would love to talk shop- shoot me a DM eh?

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GroovyOctopusLabs, thanks for the help.

cyclopath, If I’m understanding you, you’re saying to use butane in a jacketed BHO rig like the one shown instead of using alcohol extraction and RotoVap? If so, this sounds like a reasonable approach cost wise but I’m really adverse to using butane as I’m not convinced the levels that remain in the product wouldn’t cause myself and other sensitive folks to react. Maybe I’m not getting what you’re saying?

Extractor%20BHO
Extractor King

At the scale youre talking you could use a couple pots from the kitchen and coffee filters to get er done. For 10k you could buy 5000g of finished isolate and save all the trouble. Buying equipment in anticipation of regulation might be wasted.

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nope.

the object of the game (as @GroovyOctopusLabs called it) was to use a used hydrocarbon rig FOR ethanol.

look at what you’re doing…
get the solvent cold
run it over the material (soak or re-circulation might be required for optimal efficiency)
recover solvent to yield extract.

all that is required to swap from hydrocarbon to ethanol is more heat on the recovery pot & an adequate condenser (coil in ice water). you can use a vac pump or refrigerant recovery pump to speed recovery by sucking on the solvent tank.

the one you picked has a sleave, rather than a jacket, so you’d be using dry ice.

really depends what you’ve got on hand.
not sure I disagree with @MrRandy

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You can use a closed loop system from the factory for ethanol. All you need is a chemical diaphragm pump for recovery instead of a butane recovery pump. Knf makes really good chemical diaphragm pumps that I’ve personally used for closed loop hexane and ethanol extraction. Send me a pm and I can call you tomorrow and give you some pointers.

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Rowan - I DM/PM’d you. I’ve read some more of your posts and I’m in awe.

MrRandy - That’s a great point about trying to anticipate regulations. Regarding buying finished isolate, there is always the issue of quality. I’m particularly sensitive to chemicals and have yet to use a CBD product that either didn’t work or caused a bad reaction. Nonetheless, myself and family could hugely benefit from the espoused benefits of CBD. I will look into inexpensive distillers but part of the problem I have with cheap solutions like using a Panda spin dryer is that the alcohol comes into contact with plastic and other parts that are not resistant with the likelihood of leaching plasticizers and such. There’s also a part of me that is sort of fascinated by the whole process and just wants to learn a bit more.

cyclopath - You’ve been very helpful. I now see what you’re saying about using a hydrocarbon closed loop rig but instead of butane to use alcohol. The alcohol can then be distilled off by warming the recovery pot under vacuum and using an inexpensive cooling coil. This is a completely different approach than using a RotoVap so it got me thinking.

I guess the reservations I have with this approach is perhaps in getting a good alcohol wash in a smaller vessel (hence your note about recirculating), not being able to filter before distillation, and not being able to watch, tweak, and learn a bit about the distillation process like I would with a RotoVap.

Upon reflection, if there was an all stainless Panda, I’d just go ahead and use a mesh bag and do a cold wash in a stainless bucket (per MrRandy about keeping it simple) followed by spin drying. So as I think about this, I guess besides making really clean crude, I’m looking for a setup that sort of mimics what the bigger boys are doing so I can learn . At 60 years old, its not like I’m going anywhere but I do like learning and trying to help out others where I can. Thanks for helping refine what I’m trying to do.

GreenMachine_Consult - this sounds interesting because I’m imagining there is a closed-loop system, or maybe just a jacketed fermenter that has a cooling jacket (as recommended by cyclopath), that could basically be used as a wash/short-soak tank before pulling the extract through a filter(s) to produce winterized wash. The recommendations I read in other posts about using a jacketed tank are beginning to make sense to me. Uh, yes, I’m a total noob. I sent you a PM.

In case it’s helpful for others, I was informed that I don’t need a closed-loop system for cold alcohol washing - need to follow flammable solvent laws like for a distillery where open vats are allowed. When the alcohol is heated during distillation, it does need to be closed and a RotoVap is closed-loop.


Stainless Steel Conical Fermenter for Brewing

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