Why would anyone trust you to sell anything?
What are the gasses purity you sell now? Aren’t they supposed to be of a certain purity? Why is there chemicals in them that don’t show up in the coa?
What part of any of this qualifies you to do anything besides start writing refund checks and stop selling gas today.
But you won’t stop selling gas you know doesn’t match the coa you give with it. And that makes you and anyone like you a fraud.
This is your true terpenes vitamin e moment on this forum
I’m in Long Beach. Come by any day. We have communicated this issue clearly to Solvent Direct and BelCosta for over a year now.
Without me reading through every last argument here, what can you offer me as “working together?” We’ve consistently used your gas, communicated the issue to you and BelCosta for over a year, still support your business, and seen not any improvement in gas quality, data collection, or customer outreach since addressing the issue.
What is the offer? We have plenty of resource and data to share but it needs to be met with the same value.
Come say hi! (We won’t pay for your SOP as “working together” just to be clear)
The fish trap exists only because of the fish. In our case the fish we seek is high purity gas for extraction at an affordable price.
High purity gas is available at some price, but we typically chose to use 99.95% purity to extract our pharmaceuticals because it has worked in the past.
The 99.95% Instrument grade that we tested, actually measured 99.99% pure with regard to molecules greater than C-4. I suspect in our case that was because both the 99.95% and the 99.99% came out of the same tank and the extra cost was for the extra tests and paperwork.
After one distillation and cartridge scrub, it measured 99.998% pure.
We are now receiving 99.99% LPG that has problematic contaminants in the low PPM to PPB range. As we are not paying for purity beyond two decimal places, I suggest it is in our common interest to solve problem together.
Ostensibly now that the market niche is open, someone will offer to supply the 99.999,999% purity LPG that we now covet at some price, sooo we can stop buying the cheaper Instrument grade.
Orrrr, instead of, or until then, we can work together to find an economically feasible solution that floats all boats by allowing us to continue to use the cheaper 99.95% Instrument grade, which is what I suggest and what we are attempting to do with our experiments vis a vis finding solution through rhetoric and recriminations that effectively divide our efforts.
Once we have some clear solutions, the market will sort itself out, like it always does.
Now I’m not a butane/propane guy, and I don’t fuck around with diamonds so I haven’t run into medusa.
It seems to me that here we have a gas supplier that’s acknowledged the problem.
A gas supplier that claims to (maybe possibly no promises) have a solution to said problem.
A gas supplier that claims to care about their coffee cups being clean.
A gas supplier that can almost certainly apply their solution to their bulk supply a LOT cheaper (in aggregate) than each affected party can individually.
If I had a horse in this race I’d be asking SolventDirect why the fuck they are pre-filtering all of their gas with this solution?
Even at a reasonable upcharge?
But I don’t have a horse in this race so I’ll just sit back and try to follow the science spat out by people 1000x smarter than I.
The gas supplier who is most engaged in this conversation and is putting themselves out there on this thread continues to be the one that gets all the shit. It’s so lame. Lex and Mike are working so hard to support their customers in the face of supply chain issues they can’t control.
The word I’ve gotten from the many extractors I talk to any given week, is that people like Solvent direct’s service and appreciate them addressing the issue the best they can. All of the has is the same. Buy from who you get the best price and service from and handle the issue in any of the ways mentioned
-@Photon_noir and @Dred_pirate water wash
-@waxplug climate change program
-@graywolf is working on a cartridge
-Filter over the correct media
The best solution hasn’t been identified yet, but these people are making progress and those who adopt these techniques are getting beyond the issue. Follow them and listen. There’s hope to get through this and back to business.
This is a good time to remind everyone that so of these comments from are a tiny little fraction of the people on this forum. Of the tens of thousands of active users, only about 4-500 people ever post anything. Don’t take our word for it. Call your gas supplier, and others, and have the conversation yourself.
@SolventDirect_BigM is doing a great job and Lex is 100% for his customers and the community.
Ask and ye shall receive.
THE MEDUSA CLEAN UP KIT
Here are some bullet points for customers around filtering solvent over media. Carbon
Chemistry can run technical questions through their system and if customers need more
support, Carbon Chemistry also offers consulting services.
SOP
• Filter in the liquid phase over media.
• Use 50/50 Activated Alumina and 10A molesieve beads.
• Gas should touch the AA first, beads second.
◦ Top fill, AA on top. Bottom fill AA on bottom.
• If you are using a 6” diameter spool, you would be looking at 6” of each media.
A 6”x12” media column can treat 1-200# of gas. Carbon Chemistry know that seems
like a wide range, but that is the nature of the issue. Carbon Chemistry has found
extractors with the same solvent, from the same suppliers may or may not have the
issue. It seems like once people have it, they keep having it until they get serious about
Distillation and Filtering their solvent. Extractors will need clean vessels to put their
distilled and filtered gas into.
Extractors can look at this two ways, and Carbon Chemistry suggests that extractors go
in aggressively with the Alumicel A and squash the issue. If it works for the extractor
and is a stable solution, they can try to swap in the Activated Alumina to reduce cost.
For price sensitive extractors, suggest starting with the Activated Alumina. That does
work for MOST people. If that doesn’t work, swap out Alumicel A for the Activated
Alumina. Now that the Future Forum seems to know what the specific contaminant is,
there is work being done on resin media that will target that specific compound. It is
very exotic, very expensive.
The feedback Carbon Chemistry has gotten from actual customers is that this works like
a charm. The Activated Alumina and 10A MSB is effective at least 80% of the
time. Swapping out the Activated A for Alumicel A is about 90% effective. Carbon
Chemistry is transparent about this with people. Carbon Chemistry views this solution
as a band aid fix on the issue and Carbon Chemistry feels good about offering this
solution to our customers.
Here it is in downloadable .pdf format:
MEDUSA CLEAN UP KIT BY CARBON CHEMISTRY.pdf (43.5 KB)
The welding supply I’ve referenced is doing just that. No fast crash, no sop change.
What the hell are you guys selling then?
We have known knowns, knowns unknowns and unknown unknown.
The media will work for the knowns --methanol and wtfamine. Since the supply chain is at issue, how can anyone promise to remove everything?
The cautious language reflects the still unfolding facts at hand. It’s a straight forward message that isn’t overselling or hyperbolic.
I would love to take a community vote on this
I know a ton of people were using AA and mol sieve and were still having problems
80% effective? I don’t believe it and I bet the community would back this up
Also requires an aggressive clean out of the entire system in my experience.
@thesk8nmidget (I was gonna tag him above last night but couldn’t figure out his name on here) cleaned his system top to bottom in the MS telegram chat I remember and I think he said he uses AA an mol sieve and it only lasted like a day right? Or something. He was the main reason I commented that
What do you use to clean your system? Can you describe the process and products? I think this will be useful to people. We should probably have a separate clean up thread. There’s all sorts of tricks and tips for cleaning.
200 proof usp food grade ethanol. Discs are cleaned with various solvents as they get dirty. Then a sonic clean with alconox and still clean that off with ethanol. I don’t use any non food grade solvents (contaminants) to clean my equipment. Everything is wiped down, nitrogen sweep, and rigorous vacuum. Collection pot and chambers with heat are warmed up to 130+ while vacuum is pulled, then dropped back down to operating temps.
FWIW, I don’t think alconox is particularly soluble in high proof ethanol, you might want to rinse with water between those two
I’m curious who here has actually met and talked to Rami Rodriguez besides DukeJohnson?
What are his qualifications?
Does the fact that he’s associated with one of the gas companies whose profits could be effected by this whole thing matter to anyone?
I find the lack of actual hard data/evidence in this thread pretty disturbing. Or is the actual evidence in your double secret telegram chats but it’s a secret from the rest of us here and we should just shut up and believe you?
If you guys did this special test and found these contaminants surely someone must have replicated the results before you all started this whole flurry of activity finding solutions that only partially work, right?
You know they do that (outside sources retest and replicate results) in actual scientific research before claiming victory, right? I believe it’s called peer review. They don’t just take some hearsay, even if from a well-known source, and run with it.
LOL, I love reading the first post in this thread which sounds good but is all hearsay. Not one actual shred of evidence presented. Then the next posts are all people gushing and creaming in their pants with the “Great work” and “Doing God’s work my man” comments. I’m not saying it’s incorrect, just that you all’s threshold for evidence and being convinced of something is incredibly low.
There is so much missing information in the above paragraph. It’s almost like you’re stuck between two mindsets. On the one hand you want to be the person who gets the credit for figuring this out so you want to put it out there but on the other hand it seems like you don’t want to be fully outright and explain exactly what you did and what you found.
I mean I know that you “caught two flights, commissioned a new lab yesterday and made 10 pounds of hash and wrote this write up in the airport.” But don’t you think a little bit more detail would help here?
See Duke I’m the same as you in the sense that “I have no potential financial gain, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and won’t stop until I see this in the industry’s rear view mirror and understanding is available to those who seek it.”
Any pics of the test apparatus for others to try and duplicate your results? (an outside source duplicating the results is incredibly important)
How was the “entrained normal butane residue” obtained from the vessel?
What was the testing procedure?
Was the butane being tested distilled or used straight from the original tank it was received in from the gas supplier?
These are just a couple questions that I have.
I’m not saying you are wrong. Just saying that everything here in this thread is hearsay.
Duly noted. Appreciate it
I use 13x and AA. It does help a LOT! but not a complete fix for fast crashes. What it clearly does is make the situation much better and were not losing time and money anymore.
What the 13x and AA stopped completely was crashing inside my system. After pouring i will still have some pans crash out within a few hours or same day. Before filtering, the pours would crash within seconds or minutes after pouring if i could even get it to pour.
I had to plumb my solvent pump to my pour spout and would have to push vapors up the spout to clear the spout enough for a pour. I had to do this almost every single time i poured. I havent needed to use my solvent pump to clear a plug since i started filtering my gas.
When I clean my system I use 200 proof ethanol and reflux in the collection for a few hours under vacuum and with heat circulating. I do this 2-3 times until my ethanol comes out clear and clean. I will then use distilled water to further clean the system. I then keep heat on and vacuum the system down for a few hours.
I dont always use distilled water in between but sometimes I do if it looks like there is still residual gunk on the walls.
