Best can liner for cannabis beverages

I am working on developing a cannabis beverage similar to cann or wunder, one issue im finding is aluminum cans absorbing cannabinoids.

Not sure from the articles if can liner is actually absorbing the thc or if reduced potency is from non effective emulsifying of the oil into the beverage and result is oil clinging to sides of can. It appears to me that competitors are not using special can liners but tough to tell.

Looking for recommendations for can liners, or clarification if it’s actual liners or emulsifying agents being used.

As a side note I am looking for hemp derived water soluble thc d9 vendors, please dm with pricing if a verified slanger.

How many mg are you trying to fit into how big a beverage? How are you emulsifying?

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For hemp cannabinoids try @7Leaf I’ve had great luck with them on projects in the past

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In my experience it is both. Since you are going cans instead of glass or something - the BPA liners have worked best for me (yes yes BPA) there are three varieties that I had widely available to me (which is important, because SUPPLY CHAIN). BPANI Gen 1 and Gen 2 worked better for me than the similar product from India. BPANI Gen 2 had better overall stability without any refrigeration. I got my cans from Ball, India and one from Ukraine before the world ended over there. The Indian one was supposed to be “the same” but you could clearly see the different in structural layout of the liner within the can body. I noticed you can see the same thing on ends occasionally. I figure this was part of the manufacturing process and not the actual liner itself, but I don’t really know.

Since then - I’ve been pretty strict on going with Ball cans with Gen 2 liners and standard ends. You can get them in almost any size. I found they worked for 3 different emulsion styles - and across different recipes.

I also found that planning for “leeching” wasn’t difficult - and I noted that it appears that most of the leeching happens within the first week or so. So planning for that during testing and then on-going stability monitoring was important.

I did find that there were some products that the emulsions really didn’t work. For those products… I don’t think it will matter what kind of liner you use, they are going to get sedimentation or striation or segmentation/separation and that’s going to lead to a lack of uniformity in the beverage during aliquots for testing.

And finally - I always try to remind people that if you are in the US the FDA is still saying cannabis derived stuff is not supposed to be used as additives in foods and beverages and cosmetics and stuff. I know lots of people are doing it… and that they are not enforcing it terribly strongly. However - we’ll be getting a new farm bill which will clarify some of this stuff next year (that’s right its time for the next farm bill!!) and most of us expect that these “loop holes” will go away.

So please monitor your risk when getting into these businesses - the marketplace may go away before you have a chance to recoup your investment. <3

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Thanks Tom, yes we have hemp derived 9. We don’t have water soluble, however I think there are some labs on future that can make it for you from hemp d9

5mg and 10mg

You anticipate all the hemp derived d9 will end next year ?

It seems like bpa has such a negative association do you think it’s possible to use non bpa and dose with leeching in mind?

Thanks!

Yes. I anticipate that the next Farm Bill will close these loop holes that everyone has been using, as that was NOT the intent of the Republican led Congress at the time when they passed it. They were pretty specific about it being for industrial purposes and to open up the avenues of additional research through the FDA. The FDA has said no to these products (well all cannabis derived products except one that was approved by them…) and I expect that in alignment with most of the other cannabis related bills around the country and in Congress this past year that they will remove these things from the marketplace, be specific about it, and the “derived salts” train will end.

One never knows how the politics will land - but there is a pretty large “cannabis lobby” that isn’t interested in “hemp products” competing with them. Combine that with the alcohol, pharma, and tobacco lobbies (aka the prohibitionists because of business) and the save our kids lobbies (you know the classic reefer madness folks…) and who do you have left? A handful of farmers and then mostly off the books and warning letter receiving producers in the states. It sucks and politics always sucks that way.

I’m hopeful there will be no movement - but these bills are already being drafted, we should probably see the first draft in Jan/Feb - and we need to hop on it and start sending in our public comments ASAP so they know we are hear. Otherwise there will be no other voice than those saying to do away with these things.

I have not had success with other liners. Sure they exist - but they are not the most prevalent in the market. Almost all cans in the US (think all your name brands) use a Ball can with a BPA liner. That includes all Coke and all Pepsi products last time I checked which was around 9 months ago. I’m sure some granola mom out there cares about complex plastics in her kids water bottle… but if she’s drinking beer its coming from a BPA can. Or if she’s drinking a seltzer, or almost anything these days.

And its always worth noting that just because its isn’t BPA doesn’t mean its any safer than BPA. They have already found new liners that people are complaining (without any science yet, but still) are worse than BPA or the same. And its also worth noting that there isn’t any conclusive science saying BPA isn’t safe. Its still on the FDA GRAS list and there have been lots of studies on its safety and still haven’t found any reason to stop using it. Especially given that it helps maintain food safety and integrity - and we all know that foodborne illness will kill you regardless of whether or not there is a potential for BPA leeching to cause you harm. :slight_smile: The FDA is currently in the process of reassessing the science on this (again…) because of a petition from concerned parents. I always find those petitions interesting, since they are not like petitions from scientists with data showing conclusions, but are instead requests for the government to spend the money to do the science. -chuckle-

And, of course,

Almost all of the epoxy liners have some kind of bisphenol component. even its its not specifically BPA. There’s multiple generations of it at this point, whether its the seal joint coating, or the overall matrix, or the second layer. And there’s solid research showing that even when it is being used they are looking at ppb being present and non-detectable amounts food to be leeching. Which is a bit crazy, since there is more than that in our water systems and what not - because manufacturing and dumping and other kinds of pollution. :frowning:

Even using BPA you still have to dose with leeching in mind - even if its just leeching during filling (because you will lose some to your filters, tubing, etc.). And you have to control for on-going stability of all your other components as well (buffered pH, etc.).

Indeed - if you go with a BPANI Gen 2, instead of say, a generation 1 epoxy coating, I’m pretty sure you even pass the requirements of California (which has the strictest requirements for this stuff…)

I haven’t found any that can handle the different levels of acidity that I’m rolling with, but then I do sodas mostly. I think sticking with what works is probably the most important to me. I wanted my customers to have a consistent product that was shelf stable. These worked for me.

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I realize this is an old thread, but I wanted to clarify that the liners mentioned above would be BPANI, which stands for BPA non-intent. CA Prop 65 required traditional BPA liners to be reformulated to remove BPA from the liner material. It’s called BPA “non-intent” because BPA is so prolific in our environment that it could still show up in testing even though the chemical does not exist in the liner formulation.

If anyone needs pallet quantities of cans or ends, let me know.

Cheers!

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Hey Packitup. I’m looking for Aluminum cans for a cannabis infused beverage. Looks like Ball cans with Gen 2 liners and standard end? How can we connect with pricing and availability?

Hi Bevops,

I can help you with that. Can you call at 614-940-8909 today to talk through details? Thanks!

Hello All -

If anyone wants to talk can liners with Cannabis Beverages I’m here.
There is a you tube video if you search: What is aTULC? this video will explain how the aTULC can liners are different.

IF you want to hear more about how much better these cans are in terms of scalping, oxidation and cannabinoid detection in the liner please reach out via email.
tammy.duhaime@americancanning.com

Thanks,
Tammy