He looks like a cartoon character lol…
Thats @Killa12345 right?
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I was quoted just about 5 figures to get a comprehensive analysis of bentonite clay in both:
composition analysis (verifies the mineral composition of the adsorbent versus manufacturer-supplied specs)
and a…
particle size distribution test (which verifies the particle size range that the adsorbent is composed of versus what the manufacturer supplies).
Not in the least.
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Benzene usually has a limit of like 1ppm so if there is basically any amount present it’s going to fail. The silver lining there is that you don’t need to test the gas straight to see if it’s going to fail you. I’m just shooting from the hip here but I imagine you could just contaminate some otherwise clean distillate with say 5-10% butane and submit that for a regular residual solvent screening. If there’s any amount of benzene in the gas you’d fail.
The very thought of doing this seems so strange but I’m not seeing any reason it wouldn’t work. Correct me if I’m wrong. It also would theoretically get around having to find a lab that will accept samples of gas. Every lab has the means to do it they just might not want their clients handing over undiluted hazardous materials, especially gas. Still should notify them if you know it’s loaded with solvent so they can handle it appropriately (and not assume they messed up running your sample)
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One of my mentors made a little tiny open blast tube that only held like 1g of flower for this purpose.
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I took a bunch of jars added some mct and added some butane to reduce down in the fume hood that I will submit for testing Monday morning.
Hi John, we provide certificates of analysis for the gas with every purchase in addition to certificates of Decontamination for the cylinder. By having both documents signed by a reputable hydrocarbon specialist and correlating DOT serial numbers you can prove a clean chain of custody on your product.
With all petroleum products you will have residual solvent. The key is monitoring detection levels and preventing dangerous accumulations caused by industrial practices such as topping off cylinders hundreds and thousands of times without ever evacuating or decontaminating the cylinder.
When it comes to gases, it’s critical you maintain a clean chain of custody. It doesn’t matter how clean the pot of coffee is if your coffee mug has potential backflow contamination from other operators or toxic Petro chemical waste accumulations.
Further the moisture content found within those impurities sitting at the bottom of your cylinder will rust and corrode the interior of the cylinder causing decomposition mixed into your gas. This corrosion and decomposition is also the reason for federally required cylinder re-qualifications every five or 10 years depending on the manufacturer.
We partnered with One of the oldest and most reputable Cylinder re-qualifiers in the country to bring you ultra high purity instrument grade hydrocarbons in cylinders that have been decontaminated Before every refill. This is why our customers don’t have to distill toxic mystery oil out of their gas or risk petro chemical waste accumulations that lead to dangerous and detectable levels of benzene and other heavies.
This aspect of extraction is still very much under regulated. With the recent recommendations from the CGA we are starting to see these agencies acknowledge this application of LPG and it’s only a matter of time before they come up with policies similar to those required for medical cylinder standards making contact with humans inside of hospitals.
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We have a great partnership with amspec which is one of the leading global LPG analytical companies. We would love to speak with any company having cylinder and gas purity issues. It is important we stop sweeping this ugly truth under the rug and bring it out into the light so we can continue to improve the safety standards of LPG applications in extraction.
Dude that’s a stupid amount to pay for those tests.
Get yourself to an environmental soil lab. They can do both tests for less than $1000! And they do those tests all day long.
Sounds like your lab hasn’t done the tests before and is charging you to buy the equipment.
For 5 figures you can buy your own particle analyzer and maybe even half the inorganic equipment for mineral analysis…
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If you study the chain of custody on high purity food and beverage grade alcohols it becomes abundantly clear the handling of ultra high purity products including hydrocarbons is directly related to the impurities that you are finding at the consumer level.
For instance, One of our chemical partners is one of the oldest DSPs in the country. They have an analytical testing facility right next to their rail spur. They test every rail car that comes in, they use dedicated lines to fill their holding tanks which are maintained to the same Purity standard and same goes for the mixing tanks and the lines that are used to fill customer drums, totes etc. You can see video of this on our homepage. If anywhere across this chain of custody the purity standard is compromised, the purity standard may no longer be valid.
We are seeing industrial standards all across cannabis Extraction compromise people, purity and product because there is still not much regulation, oversight, enforcement branches and recommendations for this application. There also have not been significant product liability lawsuits to set legal precedent. We’ve been contacted over the years many times about industrial suppliers selling “clean” product that caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses. In one of these cases it almost went to trial, but the supplier settled the case with the operator before it became public.
As you can imagine, nobody wants this dark reality to become public as it could be very damaging to a brand or reputation.
There are examples of this both on the high purity gas side as well as the alcohol side. For instance, almost 95% of ethanol production in this country is fuel source. Meaning these alcohols are produced for gas stations. Most of these facilities are not food and beverage grade facilities. When the pandemic first hit, we were seeing fuel source alcohol producers desperate to sell product because nobody was filling their tanks up at the gas pumps. You can read more about how the pandemic impacted ethanol production in this country on our blog.
Around the same time the FDA loosened the requirements for hand sanitizers and fuel source producers jumped in headfirst to start selling alcohol for hand sanitizer. Please see our other forum posts where we were being criticized for bringing this to the attention of the forum.
While we completely understand businesses want to be profitable, sometimes we make bold statements because we care about people more than profit. We did not get into extraction Supply seven years ago for a profit, we wanted to help our friends and family find safe lab supply when no one else would sell to them. We believe it is wrong to sell lower purity products to increase profit margin‘s at the expense of people, purity and safety even if no one is watching.
Subsequently the FDA was getting reports of lead poisoning and other heavy metal contamination‘s in hand sanitizer and had to tighten back up on their guidelines for hand sanitizer production because they realized they opened up a can of worms with their emergency sanitizer guidelines. FDA advises consumers not to use hand sanitizer products manufactured by Eskbiochem | FDA
The same producers after being caught by the FDA in the hand sanitizer play, also pivoted to cannabis extraction. Realizing there was little to no regulation of purity standards for Alcohol Extraction, fuel source producers started flooding the market with fuel source alcohol at a discounted price. Some of these producers and distributors are still selling fuel source alcohol for extraction currently.
Back to gas…
When we first started seeing large scale hydrocarbon extraction, a lot of guys were still using cans brought over from Korea blatantly misrepresenting the Purity standard. Some of those cans said they were research grade (99.999%) and we all know from the open b days that those labels were misleading to say the least.
Around the same time ultra high purity producers like diversified and gas innovations out of Houston came online with the ability to fill hundreds and thousands of cylinders repeatedly with ultra high purity b, p and i.
As most of us know this changed the game because we were able to get away from the master cases. But we were still seeing mystery oil in some of the cylinders. The question was if we could trust the certificate of analysis on the gas, why was there still mystery oil?
We probably sound like a broken record at this point and will skip to what’s happened in the last several years…
Industrial suppliers with the infrastructure to sell lpg have realized there is a big opportunity extraction lab supply and gotten comfortable enough with the federal v state regulatory ambiguities to the point they are ready to cash in on the “green rush.”
Currently the over saturation of supply has led to even more corner cutting than we had ever seen before. While gas innovations has the ability to clean cylinders before every refill, a lot of industrial suppliers choose not to do so. And this is understandable, industrial suppliers have never cleaned LPG cylinders. There’s no need when you’re connecting the cylinder to a heat lamp or a barbecue. The impurities are being burnt off in these cases. However we would be interested in studying a burger that’s been cooked on a barbecue with filthy industrial propane.
This is why we see so much mystery oil out there. Instead Of cleaning the LPG cylinders much like medical cylinders required under FDACFR 211.8 to 211.94, it’s most profitable to top off cylinders outback of the facility without ever cleaning them. If you see lots of 500 pound tanks at your suppliers location with fill lines connecting to lp239’s (“100 pounders”), ask them what they are doing with those 500 pound tanks. Are they topping off customer returns with 500lb cylinders? Are they doing anything to verify backflow contamination or petro chemical waste accumulations inside of the customer returns before topping them off?
It’s cost prohibitive to send cylinders back to a centralized cleaning facility especially for low volume suppliers that are just getting into the high purity side. We’ve been accused of lying about sending our cylinders to a centralized cleaning facility in the past by some of the suppliers because they are afraid people will find out the truth.
We go through the added expense of shipping every one of our customer cylinders back to a centralized cleaning facility, we have a hydrocarbon technician decontaminate every cylinder with our three phase cylinder decontamination process and sign off on a serialized certificate of Decontamination to prove that work has been completed. If you don’t believe us, and you believe some industrial supplier looking to cash in on the green rush, please give us a call so we can show you first hand our huge freight bills for shipping customer cylinders back to our centralized cleaning facility. We are also happy to have anybody come visit our 3 phase cylinder Decontamination plant located in Ohio. Or you can visit www.solventdirect.com/gas to see video of our process.
You can also ask any one of our customers How much time and money they save not having to waste their time distilling toxic mystery oil out of their gas or the risks and safety hazards associated with distilling toxic mystery oil’s inside of their system, their lab and exposing their people to these dangerous impurities. Where do you dispose of the “mystery” oil? You cleared that disposal with the epa right?
There is a good reason proposition 65 exists in California. It’s important to warn people when a product or place contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and reproductive harm.
As passionate industry enthusiast wanting to serve our community with safe, reliable and consistent lab supply, we will continue to find better ways at a better price.
We truly appreciate this opportunity and want to thank you guys for being the rockstar‘s that you are.
If I see one more coffee mug picture when I open up his hidden replies. I’m going to go to town on the flagging for spam function because he is reposting the same damn comment, repeatedly, over, and over, and over. He’ll get to keep the first comment, but I’ll flag every single one after. Stop being a broken record and saying the same thing over and over again. Come with new statements or stay TF out of the thread, as you’ve already interjected anything of value
SD don’t reply to me.
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How is your gas 99.75%? Are you falsely marketing an extra .25% purity to give yourself a competitive edge by lying to the industry about an extra .25% purity? You sell instrument grade gas like everyone else who sources through diversified and their established distribution chain, and 99.5% purity is the standard.
Also, regardless of how clean you get your tank before every refill, you’re still filling the tank with .5% of unwanted compounds so regardless if you clean before every refill, you should be distilling your gas to insure product quality. Telling ppl otherwise is bad advice.
The contaminated gas is coming from Cortland Energy because they are selling industrial grade gas. We’ve got test results of their gas containing C6+ contaminants. I believe they distribute to thc gas, elite solvents, gas logix, and a few other welding supply stores in NorCal where a lot of this seemed to have started to get noticed.
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I even heard from another distributor and wondering if this isnt a bigger issue…
Who is the distro? There might be more ppl selling industrial grade gas but I think Cortland has the largest distro chain of any industrial grade gas seller I know of in the industry. Anyone tied to them you should avoid if you want instrument grade and not industrial grade. Diversified makes solid product and that’s what companies like SD, XD, HPG, canna gas, etc sell. But the purity is the same throughout from the bulk supplier. Only difference between the gas companies is the clever/ deceptive marketing to make themselves seem better than the other whether it is cleaning cylinders or claiming .25% purity higher, etc. It’s all the same shit at the end of the day.
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Thanks ChangminXD, these are all great questions and we are so glad you brought them up.
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While the minimum standard is 99.5%+, we typically test upward of 99.8% because we start with the highest purity products possible and maintain a clean chain of custody downstream from bulk, to fill lines, pumps and decontaminating consumer tanks. See some recent COA and COD’s attached below. As you can see we are testing upward of 99.8%+ and we maintain this standard with a clean chain of custody by decontaminating every cylinder before every refill.
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We always recommend distilling. This is the second time you’ve made claims that we tell customers not to distill. This is false and could be legally construed as defamation. More importantly, it is critical operators know the purity of what they are running. Our highest and best advice is to disregard supplier COA’s and COD’s and independently verify the purity of product before running just like the pharmaceutical industry does to prevent product liability.
We do however advertise significant savings of the time, money and risks of distilling “mystery” oil out of “clean” gas when these dangerous exposures and wastes can be prevented by decontaminating cylinders before refilling.
We would love to share more about what we do to protect extractors. We believe in quality, ethics and integrity for our industry. We want to see safe and responsible products brought to market. We have been on this mission for almost 7 years now and we are very grateful for the opportunity to be of service to the industry we love. We didn’t get into this to turn a buck, we got into this to help our friends and family make clean medicine.
We don’t believe it’s “all the same shit at the end of the day.” We believe we can make a difference and continue to bring safe and responsible lab supply to market for a competitive price to support ethical manufacturing practices.
What do you believe in?
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This isn’t a Cortland issue. We’ve been scrambling left and right for the last few days to get clean gas to labs effected by this batch. I can’t say for sure where in the chain the problem is but it’s somewhere in the Diversified stream.
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You’ve got an interesting story ChangminXD. Did you read the COA’s we provided above? Are you from Xtractor Depot?
Is this how you run your business? By telling customers “it’s all the same shit at the end of the day” and lying about companies striving to improve purity standards and chain of custody for safe extraction?
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