I’ve been out of the ethanol extraction game for a few years. But when I was still doing it, all the rage was using 200 proof ethanol. Is this still the standard? Or has the majority of ethanol extractors switched to denatured? And if so, denatured with heptane or hexane?
Cda-12a is common
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CDA-12a is denatured with heptane which evaporates cleanly. There aren’t really any advantages to using tax paid pure ethanol over denatured.
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I disagree.
Heptane is an environmental toxicant and should be disposed of as such, which is expensive. Also the less hydrocarbons you expose yourself to, the better.
One mans opinion.
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I think its also able to produce a better crude vs cda12.
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That’s totally valid and I don’t disagree at all. I suppose I meant from a processing point of view. There’s a bunch of common solvents you aren’t supposed to flush in large amounts, like isopropyl.
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Heptane does pull a lot of fats so I could see that being a benefit. You’re paying a lot for that advantage.
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Assuming you’re using it in your extraction operation, why would you “dispose” of it instead of just continuing to use it as an extraction solvent, and replenish the losses that go out in your spent material and to evaporation? I’m under the impression its pretty difficult to separate any denaturing agent from ethanol, and that’s why the government mandates those specific agents for use in CDA ethanol mixes
I guess I have a difficult time believing that there’s any significant amount of solvent - toxic or not - still left in your cannabinoids after the degas & terp strip portion of a distillation run.
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Has more to do with your whole processes having to incorporate potential changes due to using a hydrocarbon mix, even if its a lower dilution.
The hydrocarbon, heptanes, is not very fun to get anywhere near open skin, or have exposure to in general.
You should be incorporating return air supply and dedicated exhaust anywhere large open quantities are in use, and near their gaseous temperature phases.
Lots of things to think about.
Biomass waste offgassing, will you be able to fall under your jurisdictions AQMD’s offgassing limitations per month/year, when using a hydrocarbon denatured blend?
Maybe none of the processors are being audited, YET, but one day there may be audits for this type of data sets.
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I’ve been using cda-12 for 3 years and never experienced any skin irritations ever, and have got plenty on me over the years. Also, with cold enough temps and proper filtration the little bit of extra wax the small amount (5%) of heptane pulls in there doesn’t make a bit of difference.
Back in like 2018, I was sprayed in the eyes from a leaky HLPC fitting, with a hexane/toluene blend. That was with a fume hood, while wearing proper protective glasses and a lab coat… Still scared the shit out of me, with how easy a catastrophic failure can lead to life safety risks.
Ever since then I have taken a different approach to lab safety.
If there is an alternative to using a hydrocarbon denatured solvent, I am going to use it.
The less exposure over my life, the better.
I already inhale benzene fumes the second I walk out of my house, due to fossil fuel emissions.
I dont need any more neurotoxins.
To some people, the cost savings is worth it.
There are basically no agencies imposing strict occupational safety hazard inspections/regulations for this industry yet.
Employees rarely even know the universal OSHA safety laws in place to protect them.
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Sdag 3 I feel like the bitrex stays along for most of the ride.
Da2a has ethyl acetate which is a nightmare on cold traps and pumps.
190 u may have to do brine washes to get that water out…
200 is 200…
Ethanol denatured with methanol is available.
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Yes, denatured ethanol with methanol is available but not very easy for folks in the Cannabis space to acquire.
This requires an SDS (Specialty Denatured Spirits) permit from the TTB (tax & trade bureau – who oversees alcohol sales in the U.S.) to be able to purchase. So to sell this material to you – you would need an SDS distributors permit and your end user would need an SDS permit (https://www.ttb.gov/images/pdfs/p51503.pdf). Typically the TTB will not grant these permits to people doing anything with Cannabis & Hemp space.
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200 won’t be 200 for long when you’re exposing it to air and plant material that has moisture in it.
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Appreciate all the input and feedback! I’m opening an extraction supply store in AZ, so I was looking for input on what we should carry more of to start. Looks like we should be healthily stocking both. Seems like both are still used throughout the industry depending on the individual needs and beliefs of the labs. Good to know.
Market prices dont support being able to use 200 proof. IMO. Least for CBD. Been using it for years and have never experienced any irritation or anything
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If you’re certified organic, it’s also a requirement. I’m an organic processor and I actually can’t use anything denatured. It’s a cost, but I’m working on a residual reclaiming machine. I have basically $1,300 of electricity per barrel to try and push that as far as possible, so I might as well try. If you get specially denatured alcohol and denature it with limonene, then pull the limonene off before processing, that’s a way around it, with the cost of an extra step.
I also know that if you pull too much water from your biomass, you form a three layer solution with heptane ethanol at the top, a mid layer, and a water layer. Those are just a nightmare to deal with. I’d prefer a two layer.
Personnel exposure is an issue, and its going to happen. So are environmental leaks. Really it’s the governments fault for holding manufactures to the excise tax and therefore the environmental pollution, but still we should take responsibility.
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Personally our lab here in Oregon only uses ethanol. Would not recommend putting more hydrocarbons in your extract then needed since you recover 99% of the ethanol typically and you can precipitate your terpenes, other left over residuals in the ethanol and it ends up being a very worth while expense depending on your state. Upfront and operating cost is generally cheaper, safer for ethanol labs compared to co2 or other hydrocarbon labs.
I think they meant denatured ethanol as opposed to food grade ethanol and was trying to probe if anyone was still paying the excise tax ($700 for a barrel then a $1400 tax)