Root Riot with limited success

[EHO_AZ]

I clone with root riot plugs, and I use a method very similar to what @Ralf mentions above. Key takeaways I’m my mind are the starting moisture, don’t touch them for the first 3-4 days, then opening the dome as much as you can to harden them off. A little nutrient solution goes a long way. You can have roots in 5 days, most of the time for me it’s been 7-10 days until they have enough roots to transplant.

Oh and mother plant health is very very important. Weak cuttings take longer to root and have growing problems sometimes.

[Ralf]

@SavageStoner

I use straight well water at a 5.8-6.0 ph don’t need to flood tray just make sure all cubes got a s

I usually insert the thermoprobe into a sacrificial cube when using heating mats. Have you tried that vs. leaving it in water at the bottom of the tray? If you have, I’m curious about your opinion. I am asking because I don’t typically leave water in the tray unless the tray is less than 50% full.

[anon56994712]

My heat mat just didn’t shut off at the set point and fried a lot of clones

Here is another concern

[Ralf]

@fortphoenix

I personally remoisten them with tap, knowing theres at least some chlorine in it and squeeze out the excess water. You never know how old the bags are or how long the clones have stayed in that same moisture. 10" are tall as hell though, mine are about 7" and by the time i’m ready to pot them they’re already almost too tall for the dome

I would try what I described with a new bag. You can open the vents partially on day 5-6 and fully by day 8-10 depending upon room RH to reduce the times you would de-dome them. I de-dome so often to spray the clones with nutrients, and it allows for fresh air and oxygen and lowers the temp. Just opening the vents only helps reduce the temp and humidity.

As long as you reseal the bag, they hold moisture well for weeks/months. The moisture content of the cube is a citral factor. If you remoisten them, I will recommend against tap water because of the quality. Most municipalities add chloramine instead of or along with chlorine. Chlorine is fine in low doses in hydroponics (aero, NFT, DWC) and aerocloners. Chloramine is toxic to plants in low doses. But either way, there isn’t enough residual chlorine/chloramine in tap water to do anything helpful for the cubes. The low level of residual chlorine/chloramine gets deactivated instantly upon wetting the cubes (reacting with the organic matter).

I take 10" clones because I harvest a few hundred clones at a time, then I seal them in bags while I harvest more cuts, and so on until I have enough cuts for the day. Then, I debag them and cut them to 9" immediately before dipping bunches of 20-30 cuts into a large container of Dip-N-Gro just before they get stuck. That way, they are about 8" from the surface. So they’re still considered immature plants.

I don’t see much height growth while in domes. I get them out as soon as possible and cull the slow and less vigorous ones. By the time they start growing vertically, I have them tagged an entered into Metrc.

I use the 12" dome from Grow1, and would never use shorter domes again. These 12" domes are the way to go: : https://urbanagsupply.com/grow1-12-premium-high-dome-propagation-10x20x12

[Nexagon]

I can dig it up most likely later when I have more time, sure. I positive ID’d them as Rhyzoglyphus, species was either robini or echinopsis, I can remember which. Kinda fascinating little things, the way they have this waxy/soap-like substance that takes up a large part of them and acts as a buffer or neutralizer for any toxic chemicals. This makes them a very high dose insecticide pest, to the point where it’s not an option. On bulbs crops like tulips this isn’t an issue, we don’t eat tulips. Garlic is where I’d be concerned, I had read back while doing this research that we were (at the time anyway) importing a large amount of our garlic supply from China. China has… different standards. Apparently they used sodium hypochlorite (good ol’ bleach) and high dose abamectin in alternating treatment to control bulb mites on garlic.

Next time you’re in the grocery store, check out the garlic. Is it, um, extra white? Look at the origin on the label, its gonna be from China. I never noticed before this, so now I just buy my garlic from the organic section. Oddly enough, the bleach is likely a good thing in helping break down the pesticides lol

In my experiments with these mites, I took samples from the root zone and separated/isolated them in distilled h20 so I could try different stuff at different strengths. I alway use proper PPE and procedures, and I went to college (and utilize my degrees lol) so I wouldn’t recommend trying that unless you know what’s up.

The Avid (just abamectin with spreading oil) was the only thing that killed them, and it took a stupid high dose that I’d never use. Something like 50x the max rated.

But yeah I can find my pics. The ones online of them are probably a little better, the ones of the plants might be actually helpful if anyone out there is hitting a week three stall in flower, there’s pretty specific nuances to the way it stalls and the look of the plants (smell even, if you can believe it) when they’re infested. If you’ve ever used rr plugs even a while back, they can live on washed hydroton and in the film of the lines, they have a stasis part of their life cycle that protects them from drying out… literally washing the hydroton in 150F water is the only way, and that’s harder than it probably sounds. I’d replace it all and just do the system.

They won’t survive the heat treatment but they can come back if you have fungus gnats. They hitch rides on them… crazy little bastards

If anyone thinks they may be dealing with these it’s worth a look for sure.

☆.•°°°°°°°°

[Ralf]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to try it. I can’t say I have had the same experience so far.

I’m switching to cloning in the 3"x3"x2.5" no-hole rockwool cubes so I can do my 2-ish week veg with ebb/flow (not drip) before up-potting and using 3x 0.33 GPH Netafim drips for flowering. Up-potting and drip-staking thousands rooting cubes into veg volume media, just to up-pot, move, and restake them again two weeks later for flowering is a major PITA and labor cost issue. Plus, with ebb/flow it is easy to ensure each different strain gets enough water without overwatering - not so with drip and TDR moisture sensors in veg phase (using GrowLink).

[Ralf]

@EHO_AZ

Oh and mother plant health is very very important. Weak cuttings take longer to root and have growing problems sometimes.

This, 100%. The mothers should be vigrous and healthy.

[Ralf]

Heating mat and stem diameter study: "Enhancing Rooting of Vegetatively Propagated Cannabis sativa ‘BaOx’ Cuttings" by Paul Cockson, Gabby Barajas et al.

Cloning media studies: check out the sections on cloning in rockwool vs. peat, etc. Overall, this is one of the best theses studying cannabis I have ever read, and it’s only for a Master’s degree. I look forward to reading her P.h.D thesis: Horticultural Management and Environment Control Strategies for Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) Cultivation

@anon56994712

My heat mat just didn’t shut off at the set point and fried a lot of clones

Here is another concern

I don’t always use heating mats, but when I do, place the heating mat on styrofoam and put a thin towel on top of the heating mat, between the mat and the tray. It seems to help even out the heat and makes the heat gentler on the cubes.

[Nexagon]

@Ralf Something not well understood, that the temp fluctuating is a problem, regardless of increased growth with warmth. Think insulated sides, low heat transfer materials. So what you did to even out the heat was also probably helpful in stabilizing temps. After insulting my tray sides and bottom and putting the terrarium inside another larger tote or small smace my success rate stayed 99+ with classic rw plugs.

[Ralf]

Great insight!

Something occurred to me from your post: I think I get an insulation effect because I double-stack the dome trays with one of the white Grow1 trays inside one of those super ridged and thick black ones (I forget the brand rn).

I double stack trays because I hate how flimsy most trays are, especially when they have water. I insert the white Grow1 tray inside the black ridged tray to make a snap-on tight seal with the 12" tall Grow1 domes I use. Otherwise, mixing and matching different brand trays and domes typically means they don’t fit tightly the way they should.

[Autumn_Ridge_Hemp]

If those are 1020 greenhouse trays, there’s probably a web flat that they fit into, which would make it easier to carry.

[GlassFrits]

I got my 1020 trays from boot strap farmer. They are strong as can be.

[Greenleafpro]

@doobydanks

Im surprised yall dont just make your own plugs, its not like coco pete perlite and a humidity measure cost much.

That is the cheap part…

[SavageStoner]

I haven’t tried that, not a bad idea, I’ve just always chucked under tray in the little bit of water in the bottom. I’ve deff found anything over 80 and your gonna rot bottoms off.

[Ralf]

Agreed! Too hot = death. Too cold = increased rooting time without death.

[Nexagon]

Another interesting tidbit, dissolved 02 levels in colder water is way higher, so another factor.

[nomansland]

What is that machine? Excuse my ignorance.

[Greenleafpro]

Its a automated planting system for seed starts.
I mostly use it to fill trays for me.