Lipid-laden macrophages can be caused by things other than inhaling lipids and fats. It’s bad science reporting for people like David Downs at Leafly to claim because they are present, it’s caused by vit E acetate. That just spreads FUD.
For example, the ground breaking research that come out last month found the exact same lipid-laden macrophages and red rings that we’re seeing in this illness, but it was from VG/PG (and not from fat that could be in VG).
In this report, we used a murine model of chronic inhalation exposure to assess the effect of conventional tobacco smoke and components of ENDS on lung cellular function. Our model enabled a direct comparison between ENDS vapor and conventional smoke to examine their respective contributions to inflammation and lung cellular function. We show that the effect of chronic exposure to ENDS vapor is distinct from tobacco smoke, uniquely altering critical lipid-associated metabolic and immunological processes in the distal airway. Thus, our study findings sound an alarm for the potential harm of ENDS-associated products and could help provide new guidelines regarding their safety.
“In September, the New York State Department of
Health issued subpoenas for companies in
California, Michigan and Massachusetts that sold
vitamin E oil as a thickening agent for vaping
pods.
Last month, Dr. Kevin Davidson at WakeMed
Hospital in Raleigh, N.C., and colleagues reported
on five cases of vaping-related illness, all of which
showed traces of the distinctive lipid oils in the
lungs during diagnostic tests. “Finding oil within
the lung is never normal, and it seems to be a
hallmark of this disease,” Dr. Davidson said.”
Same here. Sure seems like it’s cheap chinese carts. There are carts they sell as “with lead” and “without lead”. WTH?
But I don’t want to make the same terrible error made by others and assume it’s the carts without proof. Howeever, this new reserach looking at lung tissue by the Mayo Clinic is pretty compelling.
The NY State Health Dept found vit E oil, they never said they think it’s the cause. And, the FDA reproted that out of 180 tested samples, only lik 39.6% has vit E acetate.
Dr. Kevin Davidson didn’t look at the lung tissue itself. They were basing that claim on their non-invasive testing. Making an educated guess that was wrong it seems.
So far too many docotrs were just guessing at the cause. No real proof.
The amount of HCN produced, even from distillate heavily contaminated with myclo, is soo insignificant. Not anywhere near concentrations to induce notable acute toxicity.
I’m not assuming anything just making a hypothesis. Lead is one thing but wouldn’t really meet what we’re seeing here (caustic injury, seemingly random/inconsistent incidence). Maybe there’s some problem, for instance, in the battery leading to some kind of internal corrosion and release of acidic fumes. It wouldn’t occur in every battery, but only in some small subset that have a manufacturing defect. To determine anything about this would require forensics on the vapes themselves and I haven’t seen anything on that thus far.
Yup. I’ve done experiments using emergency mining gas detection equipment for HCN and very dirty distillate. Even when dropping 2-3 grams on an 800F nail in an enclosed space(about 1 cubic foot) we would only see peaks of 1-15ppm, I believe your average cigarette is like 75ppm HCN
“The cells were found in samples after performing a procedure called bronchoalveolar lavage where fluid is squirted into a small section of the lungs and then collected for examination.”
@Ruwan Hmm. Makes sense. Also HCN wouldn’t really explain the cases in which e juice was being vaped…
There have been people getting sick from THC carts, box mods, and even juul pods, right??? Not just one kind of vape…
The only thing that is consistent among all of those vapes is hardware from China…
For anybody interested in checking if their disty is hot at home, this worked well for me.
I simply built a plexi-glass enclosure around the detector and inside I rigged a little stand for a cheap titanium nail. Ran a metal coat hanger through a small hole in the roof as a dabber and placed fat dabs on the pre heated nail. Sure there’s a less antiquated way to achieve the same end but it worked well for my purposes.
That’s what I mean by non-invasive. They didn’t look at lung tissue. I think in that quote they are referring to the cells they found, which are lipid-laden macrophages. Those cells can be the result of endrogenous lipoid pneumonia, or things like vaping PG/VG (at least in mice).
And now we’re back to the Chinese chemical weapon theory. Now that they’re not allowed to pump this country full of fentanyl as easily, they have moved to intentionally poisoning stoners across America. They’re retaliating to the cia sowing dissent in Hong Kong. Get your aluminum foil on your heads fellas, we’re going down a deep rabbit hole
I don’t mean to say vitamin e is the cause by any means. I’m just saying that these cells have been demonstrated to be present in people that have associated symptoms. So I’m thinking ruling OUT vitamin e isn’t a good idea yet either.
The thing that makes me feel dirty about this is how fast and broad they came down on a huge industry after a few sickeness and deaths, when alcohol and cigarettes have been wiping people out forever. Banning all vape products in a state is a pretty broad move. While I’m sure people are getting sick, the political part of all this is pretty alarming
Cigarettes kill half a million people a year in the US alone.
Vapes killed 6 people and got banned lmao. I wonder if lobby dollars from cigarette companies have anything to do with the double standard here.
