Newb, growing for child, need assistance. Rotovap

Thank you for all the replies. I have a lot of reading to do. I’m sure I’ll have 100 more questions.

School me: Why do I need to go though all the filtering, winterizing, and cold temps if it’s only going to get diluted into coconut oil and put into capsules. There are so many Unidentified compounds in cannabis that we would rather keep it all unless there’s a compelling reason not too.

I mean with research we humans have found out that fish fat helps your heart, among many other compounds that were once considered trash or undesirable. I’m just saying…

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extract directly into the oil.
seriously.

in case you missed it: Stupid question... oils tinctures/lipid infusion

there is a link to the primary literature showing why this is a good idea.

(or just squish as @TheFire210 suggests )

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How much biomass do you currently process at a time, what is its potency, and what’s your target oil potency for capsules? I would like to give this some thought tomorrow…

I work with hemp infusion mainly into MCT and have designed larger scale equipment but have been really interested in designing smaller scale equipment too

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I have so many questions. Was holding some off till I do more research but since it came up again.

@cyclopath. The paper concluded the oils were best if oral consumption was focus. But how much (ratio) should be used? Ideally as little as possible to keep it concentrated but what’s that?

I also found it interesting that they were against AC because “it also removed a large proportion of cannabinoids and terpenes”

Rosin: Once in a few moons ago we discussed making rosin since I have a nice press already. Makes it solvent less which gave my wife a boner. Also can run chips in magical butter or source for complete extraction. Then we add rosin to the coconut oil from the chips to increase potency. Maybe add some cbd and or cbn/cbg isolate for custom blends.

We already have different strains for different times of day and moods etc. why not add the cbd or whatever to have a more targeted effect?

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you said you were aiming at 30mg doses

so aim at 30mg/ml (common dispensary tincture potency).
or slightly higher so you have to dilute.
100mg/ml is probably a reasonable upper limit.

input at 18% cannabinoids. 500g. => 90g == 90,000mg of cannabinoids

if you want 30mg/ml. how may mls of oil do you start with? (3 Liters).

use 1liter and you’ll lose a little more of your total cannabinoids, but you’ll still have on the order of 3000 doses

or get the consumer level Levo and use their recipe…

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Currently we only harvest about 1.5lbs at a time, just getting our feet wet indoor growing.

Also we need an intermediate (to us but still tiny compared to most here) setup that doesn’t break the bank. Not sure capability ideal but 1-3 lbs at a time?

Capsule potency depends on what we made the capsule for but for our daughter only 20-40mg which is low compared to cancer patients and other ailments.

What have you found for biomass to oil ratio to be least necessary to have a good infusion and not leave out too much while not having diluted end product?

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math shown…
know your input potency.
aim at 30-100mg/ml.
more oil will give better yield, as oil left behind contains cannabinoids.

using water to chase the oil off your biomass works…

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We started our journey with the magical butter making coconut oil infusions with herb a nutty green and mailed us. However it was really weak. But looking back I don’t even know what ratios we used or if we even tried to calculate it out.

However I have a question: You said 90g, that assuming 100% efficiency in extraction from the biomass.

Isn’t ethanol only 20% efficient? That would lead me to ASSume that oil wouldn’t also be in that ballpark if not lower. At 20% that leave us with 18,000mg/1000ml = 18mg/ml which is drastically different that the expected 100mg/ml.

Am I over thinking this?

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no sir.

you can achieve close to 90% with either easily.

95-98% often claimed by ethanol equipment vendors. I’ve gotten 85% when extracting 50lb of 12% cannabinoid biomass into 15gal of ethanol.

Edit: but you are absolutely correct. you’re looking at 81,000mg from your 500g input. so if you really want 30mg/ml you want to extract into 2.7liters not 3.

https://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf

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We’re in the process of finding a new lab. Our last one got shut down and a lot won’t take private.

As far as water, is that why that link had 50ml water added to one of the recipes? What’s best way to separate water out because boiling would be too hot and ruin some terps right?

I’m gonna sleep on this and re look at it tomorrow. I’m getting tired. Thank you.

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oil and water should separate…that is the whole point of using water. you can wash the oil soaked biomass with “hot” water to remove additional oil, then even freeze to ease separation.

I say should, because: emulsions

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Perfect. I was more thinking skimming it or something tedious. Frozen much easier.

this is why i say decarboxilated rosin is the best. it’s the most full spectrum extract i know of and i have seen the best results with it.

But cyclopath’s direct to oil method is probably a better option for you. it’s definitely lower cost and i was going to recommend diluting the rosin into a tincture for easy dosing in capsules anyway so his method cuts out a few steps as long as you dont over/under decarboxilate

Consumption of non medicinal compounds is not advised. The goal is to take the compounds that are medicinal with actual effect and try and purify or remove them from the remainder non medicinal.

Remember when dealing with rso or similar green or brown non processed extracts, that rso is toxic on your stomach and does nothing but damaged your guts. Isolating and removing all the dissolved plant matter that agrivates guts is a reason to focus on purification. None the less other cannabis consumables. Remember bare or typical rock simpson or rsp similar to standard types of rosin are considered.not suitable for human consumption. It must be reworked to be safer.

For the most part terps are partial to a smoking experience but should be avoided for any oral consumption product. The go to typically is distillate nc of immediate and effective bio activity. Terps saturated orally administered extracts are actually extreme harsh on your body and a child’s bldg a d should be avoided like the plague. Oral application should be done with the cleanest and purest.

I would never feed my kid any rosin or rso. It’s absolutely horrific to them and I would focus on purification as this will lead to immediate results and effective treatments.

Rosin isn’t actually a full spectrum range of cannabinoids. It’s a shmorgusborg of random non consumable compounds pressed out.

And your going to leave 15-20% of the goodies still in the rosin puck you are not able to squish out.

Have you tried cbd or cbg strains, or just actual thc weed? Just curious. If it were me, I would want all three with which to experiment.

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the trick to getting higher infusion potencies is to do a counter current extraction — divide your total 1.5 lb batch of ground biomass up into several smaller batches, say 10 minibatches of 70 grams each. Put one minibatch in a french press and fill with carrier oil until you have covered the biomass and let it steep for 10 minutes or so - mild heat, say 40degC, can help too. Record how much oil you added because this will be your ‘wash’ volume. After steeping the first wash, strain the oil you can with the french press into ‘tank 1’—this tank will be your most potent infusion. Then refill the french press with another wash volume of fresh infusion oil. Steep then strain into ‘tank 2’ — this will be your be your ‘medium potency’ infusion. Do a third wash by refilling french press with the fresh carrier oil, steep, and strain into a low potency infusion, tank 3.

Continuing this method will step up the potency in tank1 the fastest. I haven’t collected rigorous data in a while but with this french press method I made 24 mg cbd/g oil in my first tank after three minibatches. With your 18% biomass you will probably make quicker progress.

Of course you will notice that after straining the first wash of a minibatch you won’t get the same volume of oil back that you put into it. So after three washes tank one will have less oil than tanks two and three. So for your second minibatch and afterwards, your first ‘wash’ should comprise all of tank one and a little bit of tank two to get the biomass coverage you need. Similarly, the second wash will take what’s left of tank two and some of tank three. Finally for the third wash you can make up to oil that gets stuck to the biomass by adding fresh infusion oil to what’s left in tank 3.

The beauty if this method is that it pulls cannabinoids very effectively while leaving weak potency oil stuck to the biomass after your third wash. Btw you can of course do more than three washes to more efficiently extract the biomass but three tends to get 90% or so.

Eventually the tank 1 potency will exceed your spec and you can take it out of the process. So your first wash of your next minibatch starts with tank 2, then tank 3, followed by a full wash column of fresh carrier oil. For 18% biomass, 10x70 gram minibatches, and a target potency of 30 mg/mL, my guess is you would take some infusion out after every second minibatch.

When all minibatches are run—you are left with the tank 2 and 3 infusions that are ‘low potency.’ For this reason you really need to divide your overall batch into several minibatches to ensure that as much of the cannabinoids end up in the high potency oil as possible. The tradeoff on minibatch size being: more minibatches equals more work.

So yeah I think you could do this with a french press and a few beakers. For decarb, I would find a vessel that fits in your oven and do it there, at low temp (100 degC) to let co2 release and maybe some water will boil off too. Then filter and voila! Some people don’t like the taste of infusions like this—some can carry a bitter ‘bite’—but others taste quite pleasant and resemble the starting biomass really well. Since you are going to capsules taste is less an issue anyway.

Before you run a 1.5 lb batch, try a really small run with a syringe & cotton to see if it’s up your alley.

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i didn’t say it has all the cannabinoids man that’s why i recommended adding cbg and cbd. Have you tried decarbed rosin for kids? or are you saying I’m wrong without trying it? ive seen 2 different families with children who tried distillate, cbd, rso, etc and none of those were helping their kids but a simple rosin tincture changed their life! I’m not saying i know exactly what’s going to work I’m just sharing my experience.

@Demontrich thats why i told him to ethanol extract his pucks!

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