My solution isn’t ready for prime time just yet. You should chat with @Photon_noir or @cyclopath about such things.
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I knew there was a good reason for the spin dryer!
But they’re good for soooo much more.
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I have used one. The material is pretty much sopping wet when you remove it. Not a lot of fun without a centerfuge… I can’t imagine why someone would choose it over a Cup. The built in chiller is nice but that’s just a $15k Fisher -80 freezer ($8,500 used).
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I would be curious to as what that is. The whole system runs on vaccum. You vacuum charge the collection vessel then open a valve and it pulls the ethanol from the biomass vessel. You run a 1 gallon rinse at the end of the cycle. I have charged the chiller collection vessel over 10’times trying to pull as much residual ethanol out but the material is always quite wet. They have redesigned the biomass vessel, the original ones had a lip at the bottom where tapers in and that was holding residual ethanol. We don’t have the upgraded vessel. I am curious if it would help.
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What exactly are you trying to make with these systems? Crude or high quality dabbing extracts?
What is your desired throughput goal for the lab?
Your other post talked about having both a type 6 and type 7 license at your lab. I would assume the type 6 is for making crude/distillate and the type 7 is for high quality hydrocarbon extracts, right? IMO, ethanol is for making crude oil only.
I would recommend you be careful here.
Ethanol extraction really is dead simple. It doesn’t need to be overcomplicated and overpriced like a lot of the systems marketed toward cannabis are.
Capna’s claim about being “closed loop direct to ffe” is not special and the efficiency/recovery data is just marketing B.S. as well.
Also, your whole answer to wakawakalj’s point #3 sounds like big trouble to me for multiple reasons. I think you have bought into Capna’s marketing hype too much and don’t understand the hands-on, technical aspects of extracting.
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If the manufacturers really stick by their marketing material, they should have no problem signing a service agreement with guaranteed production and efficiency targets, and a 100% refund if those targets aren’t met. If they’ll agree to that, giv’er a try. Otherwise, I suggest anyone looking at an ETHOS system do some deeper due diligence into actual user experiences with those systems. (Hint: note how many have been listed for sale just on this site.)
I know of more than manufacturer that has signed agreements like that and had to take machines back at the end of the day.
Of course, they never revised their marketing material because those are not the standard terms and with multiple months worth of orders in the hopper it doesn’t matter to them - they just re-sold the units to another punter.
Equipment manufacturers in this industry have little to no incentive to improve their designs because of the massive demand. If you make something that is even marginally not terrible, you will have lineups of people waiting to throw money at you. If that’s the situation, why would you bother improving or re-engineering your systems?
Yes, that’s short term thinking, but that’s this industry in a nutshell. Fuck next year, I’m worried about today!
Disclaimer: I have no experience with the Capna system, never used one myself. They seem like nice people when I talk to them at conferences and expos. This is entirely my opinion, and I’m not directly affiliated with any other equipment manufacturer (I have however done some consulting work in the past with various parties doing not dissimilar things).
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Quality advice and much appreciated. I am taking a step back and reviewing all equipment options. I have already begun to find some alternatives that meet our needs outside of Capna. To answer your questions, the Atles maxs out at 1920lbs per day in a 24 hour shift or 650 per 8 hour shift. We don’t need to be quite that high but our floor would be 400lbs per 8 hours. Our phase 1 is geared directly towards producing bulk distillate however our core competency from previous large business’s we have scaled is in consumer facing brands and product development so we wanted to leave the door to type 7 stuff open for the future.
Once again thank you for the input I am always open to it!
I think you need to check out my website with @cyclopath : www.acespinner.com
You’ve come to the right place for high quality advice, my friend! These guys know their stuff!
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I looked on the CAPNA site and they sell a separate centrifuge. https://capnasystems.com/products/ceres
That got me wondering why they wouldn’t just have a built in centrifuge spin cycle for the end? Like after its done you should be able to open a ball valve that drops the plant material into a self locking centrifuge to spin the rest of the liquid out.
EDIT: Link is no longer active but this post was still true.
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Likely because they didn’t want to re-engineer and re-certify their existing system.
It also gives them an additional piece of hardware to sell instead of bundling it into an existing unit. This way they can “fix” older units and sell to former customers, as well as hook new ones.
Good for the company, bad for the consumer.
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That’s pretty moronic on CAPNA’s part. If they re-design the unit so the operator is able to spin the material out at the end then it would actually be used by extraction companies. They should’ve had that in place to begin with. In fact why not have it so that all the material is in a centrifuge and then when the initial extraction is done you could lock a lid down to the centrifuge and then set it for spin.
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Can anyone explain to me if a filter is necessary after using the rotovap and then throwing it into the short path?
If so are there any recommendations for a filter to handle the ethos6
More necessary before rotovap.
You may or may not benefit from winterization (major point of the capna is to avoid winterization), but you’ll absolutely need to filter your tincture before recovering the solvent.
I like 0.5um, but you can probably get away with 10um as you’re not using a WFE.
Maybe after first short path if you try lightening it with magic powders/dirt.
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I have been using the ETHOS capna 6 for almost a year now and I have concluded there are some few good things about it but there is definitely room for improvement. First of all, the claim it can do 14 lbs an hour is a lie. Maximum capacity is 2000 gr of plant material per process. One process takes 25 to 30 minutes. Therefore, I can only process a maximum of 10 lbs per hour. Second, I have noticed I lose about 3000 ml of ethanol every run. To counteract the loss of solvent, I got a hydraulic press to squeeze the remaining solvent out of the plant material and now I only lose 1000 ml of ethanol. Third, there is a limit on how many runs a day you can do. It has 6 cartridges that limits your production to 6 runs. (6 runs x 4lbs plant material=only 24 lbs a day). Lastly, the one huge thing that capna doesn’t explain is that it’s not class 1 division 1 certified in certain states ( such as Maine). The engineering team and local Fire Marshall I have to wants to separate the refrigeration unit from the extractor because the A/C unit always has power and violates C1-D1 provisions.
In my opinion, a nitrogen cooled tank for ethanol would be more efficient and safe.
I’m conclusion, the extract is winterized and free from chlorophyll as it is intended to. The yield for distillate has been anywhere from 9% to 14% with high quality trim. It helps produce some great distillate but the cost of production is a huge variable to consider purchasing the capna 6.
And one helpful hint about improving yield and less chlorophyll: grind up the trim and freeze it to -80 degrees Celsius for a day before extraction.
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That ethanol solution post hydraulic press is free of lipids?
I forgot about the details about that part; I press the plant material as soon as possible. I’ve noticed when I waited longer to press the material, I did have some fats and chlorophyll. After pressing, I use a filter system from summit research with a stage 2 filter while the solution is still cold. I know it seems primitive, but I’ve increased the yield by 2% and save close to a gallon of ethanol per run.
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Thanks for this. The post is a bit older we quickly realized the ethos (while a good system) was nowhere near big enough for our needs. We purchased a system similar to the atlas but at a much lower cost with a daily throughput bordering on 2000lbs a day.
Still looking for a solution re: centerfuge without winterizing but alas…it escapes me
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Robbyc22, do you mind sharing the system you found that is comparable to throughput promised by the Atles?
centrifuge without winterizing is the problem I’m trying to solve
It seems this can be done with the Ace Spinner by @cyclopath since it can run at -70
The problem at -70C becomes the cost of getting the solvent cold.
It also brings lowered solvent carrying capacity, which adds to the energy required for solvent recovery.
Really depends what you’re trying to achieve and how much electrickery you’re willing to throw at the problem.
-40 seems to work well in a variety of scenarios based on data shared here.
Warmer also has its proponents.
Rm temp winterizing with membranes changes the analysis.
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